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Wikis (spawned from Re: Printing why's (poignant) guide to ruby IIRC

Ruth A. Kramer

2/15/2005 5:08:00 PM

I wamted to reply to the comments on wiki vs. mail lists but I misplaced
the original post--I think it was in the "Re: Printing why's (poignant)
guide to ruby IIRC)" thread:

IIRC, the poster preferred mail lists because he thought it was easier
to search (archived) mail lists for information.

I find searching archived mail lists very difficult, at least with the
"normal" search tools provided by mail archives. (I haven't used Google
much for that purpose, but if the archive is indexed by Google, things
are much better.)

On the other hand, there are a lot of ways to look at (and use) a wiki.
Wikilearn is (has been, and will be again) my attempt to capture
snippets of useful information and find them again easily, and not just
for myself but for everyone on the web. Although someone could "read"
WikiLearn, that is not the normal approach I intend--WikiLearn is
indexed by Google, just go to Google and search for whatever you
want--hopefully (I know), sometimes you will get a hit on a WikiLearn
page, and, with more luck, it will be the resource that "hits the spot"
with just the information you need.

So, for me a wiki is a way to quickly write a web page and put it where
Google can index it. (It is about the quickest way I know about, so
far, but one of the reasons I'm here is to learn Ruby so I can write the
next wiki like thing which will be even faster (the reason I've
curtailed my additions to WikiLearn in the last year or so is because
creating pages (on TWiki in particular) is just too slow.

Another advantage of a wiki is that if I start a page and have some
errors or omissions, anyone can come along and correct those problems.
Further, you don't have to quote my text, you can just insert your own
comment (signed or unsigned depending on good wiki practice and perhaps
as customized for a particular site or type of page) at an appropriate
place.

Furthermore, that can minimize the amount of text you have to read
through to get an answer. I'm sure we've all seen the email threads
that go back and forth for 20 posts and finally develop a short,
succinct answer--but many of the posts quote so much other material that
you go crazy trying to find that answer. (This can happen in wikis too,
but that is not the goal, and, for example, if you haven't been involved
in the (wiki) thread but come along and see that situation, the goal is
that you delete all that intermediate information and make a "nice"
transition from the question the short, succinct answer. On the other
hand, some threads result in a difference of opinion, with more than one
"acceptable" (or "irrefutable") answer--then the refactored version of
the page could say something like, "40 people weighed in on this
subject, 22 felt the world was round, 16 believe it is flat, and 2 have
held out for other views". ;-)

I don't know how to edit an email thread to create such a summary. ;-)

regards,
Randy Kramer

PS: I don't know if I mentioned that Google was indexing WikiLearn about
once every two weeks, I haven't checked recently, it may be more often.
There is a local search "engine" to search entries since the last Google
crawl.


3 Answers

Thomas Counsell

2/15/2005 5:57:00 PM

0

In case it is of interest, I've been experimenting with having a folder
in my imap mailbox that I drag interesting email messages that I wish
to archive to. A script then periodically checks that mailbox and adds
messages to my wiki. The wiki doesn't need wikiwords, but instead
makes links automatically whenever the title of a page is mentioned, so
it forms a (for me) useful blur of a wiki and a mailing list archive.

If you would like to play, a rough first attempt at the code is hidden
away in the current release of Soks -
http://rubyforge.org/proj... - (look in
soks/lib/helpers/mail2wiki.rb, activate by calling from your wiki
start.rb file). I'll put some documentation up when I've polished the
code ready for the next release, in the mean time e-mail if you need
instructions/help.

Interested in your thoughts / feedback.

Tom

On 15 Feb 2005, at 17:08, Ruth A. Kramer wrote:

> I wamted to reply to the comments on wiki vs. mail lists but I
> misplaced
> the original post--I think it was in the "Re: Printing why's (poignant)
> guide to ruby IIRC)" thread:
>
> IIRC, the poster preferred mail lists because he thought it was easier
> to search (archived) mail lists for information.
>
> I find searching archived mail lists very difficult, at least with the
> "normal" search tools provided by mail archives. (I haven't used
> Google
> much for that purpose, but if the archive is indexed by Google, things
> are much better.)
>
> On the other hand, there are a lot of ways to look at (and use) a wiki.
> Wikilearn is (has been, and will be again) my attempt to capture
> snippets of useful information and find them again easily, and not just
> for myself but for everyone on the web. Although someone could "read"
> WikiLearn, that is not the normal approach I intend--WikiLearn is
> indexed by Google, just go to Google and search for whatever you
> want--hopefully (I know), sometimes you will get a hit on a WikiLearn
> page, and, with more luck, it will be the resource that "hits the spot"
> with just the information you need.
>
> So, for me a wiki is a way to quickly write a web page and put it where
> Google can index it. (It is about the quickest way I know about, so
> far, but one of the reasons I'm here is to learn Ruby so I can write
> the
> next wiki like thing which will be even faster (the reason I've
> curtailed my additions to WikiLearn in the last year or so is because
> creating pages (on TWiki in particular) is just too slow.
>
> Another advantage of a wiki is that if I start a page and have some
> errors or omissions, anyone can come along and correct those problems.
> Further, you don't have to quote my text, you can just insert your own
> comment (signed or unsigned depending on good wiki practice and perhaps
> as customized for a particular site or type of page) at an appropriate
> place.
>
> Furthermore, that can minimize the amount of text you have to read
> through to get an answer. I'm sure we've all seen the email threads
> that go back and forth for 20 posts and finally develop a short,
> succinct answer--but many of the posts quote so much other material
> that
> you go crazy trying to find that answer. (This can happen in wikis
> too,
> but that is not the goal, and, for example, if you haven't been
> involved
> in the (wiki) thread but come along and see that situation, the goal is
> that you delete all that intermediate information and make a "nice"
> transition from the question the short, succinct answer. On the other
> hand, some threads result in a difference of opinion, with more than
> one
> "acceptable" (or "irrefutable") answer--then the refactored version of
> the page could say something like, "40 people weighed in on this
> subject, 22 felt the world was round, 16 believe it is flat, and 2 have
> held out for other views". ;-)
>
> I don't know how to edit an email thread to create such a summary. ;-)
>
> regards,
> Randy Kramer
>
> PS: I don't know if I mentioned that Google was indexing WikiLearn
> about
> once every two weeks, I haven't checked recently, it may be more often.
> There is a local search "engine" to search entries since the last
> Google
> crawl.
>



Ruth A. Kramer

2/15/2005 11:49:00 PM

0

Tom Counsell wrote:
> In case it is of interest, I've been experimenting with having a folder
> in my imap mailbox that I drag interesting email messages that I wish
> to archive to. A script then periodically checks that mailbox and adds
> messages to my wiki. The wiki doesn't need wikiwords, but instead
> makes links automatically whenever the title of a page is mentioned, so
> it forms a (for me) useful blur of a wiki and a mailing list archive.

Tom,

Excellent idea!!

Randy Kramer

May not have a chance to play in the real near future. :-(

> If you would like to play, a rough first attempt at the code is hidden
> away in the current release of Soks -
> http://rubyforge.org/proj... - (look in
> soks/lib/helpers/mail2wiki.rb, activate by calling from your wiki
> start.rb file). I'll put some documentation up when I've polished the
> code ready for the next release, in the mean time e-mail if you need
> instructions/help.


Ben Giddings

2/16/2005 3:19:00 PM

0

On Feb 15, 2005, at 12:56, Tom Counsell wrote:
> In case it is of interest, I've been experimenting with having a
> folder in my imap mailbox that I drag interesting email messages that
> I wish to archive to. A script then periodically checks that mailbox
> and adds messages to my wiki. The wiki doesn't need wikiwords, but
> instead makes links automatically whenever the title of a page is
> mentioned, so it forms a (for me) useful blur of a wiki and a mailing
> list archive.

I think that's a great idea. I'm already in the (sorta bad) habit of
using my IMAP drafts folder as a place to jot notes. I know the notes
will always be as accessible as my email, and as private too.
Something like this could be really useful for a slightly longer-term
storage solution.

Ben