Asp Forum - Re: iteration the ruby way

e

2/6/2005 2:39:00 PM

> Lähettäjä: Kaspar Schiess <eule@space.ch>
> Aihe: Re: iteration the ruby way
>(In response to news:1107566961.943586.81760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
by William James)
>> Shouldn't that be
>>
>> ary[0...-1].each {|e| do_something(e) }
>> do_something_else(ary.last)
>>
>> or
>>
>> ary[0..-2].each {|e| do_something(e) }
>> do_something_else(ary.last)
>>
>> ?
>
>I would prefer this solution for its clarity of expression.

Me too :) I just think the #inject won on the neat-o factor,
particularly since it seemed adequate for the OP.

>kaspar

E

15 Answers

Robert Klemme

2/6/2005 6:32:00 PM

"E S" <eero.saynatkari@kolumbus.fi> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:20050206143902.PIMQ15813.fep31-app.kolumbus.fi@mta.imail.kolumbus.fi...
>> Lähettäjä: Kaspar Schiess <eule@space.ch>
>> Aihe: Re: iteration the ruby way
>>(In response to news:1107566961.943586.81760@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> by William James)
>>> Shouldn't that be
>>>
>>> ary[0...-1].each {|e| do_something(e) }
>>> do_something_else(ary.last)
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> ary[0..-2].each {|e| do_something(e) }
>>> do_something_else(ary.last)
>>>
>>> ?
>>
>>I would prefer this solution for its clarity of expression.
>
> Me too :) I just think the #inject won on the neat-o factor,
> particularly since it seemed adequate for the OP.

Partly yes and partly no: apart from the cute factor, there is a real
advantage of the inject solutions show: they work for *all* Enumerables
while the array indexing works only for arrays. So #inject is more general.
Also, Array#[] creates a new array instance along the way which is a bit
inefficient. But I do agree that the indexing might be more readable.

Kind regards

robert

PL

9/30/2009 7:14:00 PM

Agricultura
Bloqueo a la producci??n

El campo sigue esperando por los 'cambios estructurales y de concepto'
prometidos por el general Castro.

Alberto M??ndez Castell??, Las Tunas | 04/09/2009

"Es necesario que conservemos esos latifundios como grandes unidades de
producci??n agr??cola, y que sean propiedad de toda la naci??n. A estas
grandes unidades las llamaremos 'granjas del pueblo'", dijo Fidel Castro
el 17 de mayo de 1959, al proclamar la Reforma Agraria.

La ley entrar??a en vigor en el mes de junio de ese mismo a??o. En ella
quedar??a establecido que, siempre que fuera posible, el Instituto
Nacional de Reforma Agraria (INRA) fomentar??a las cooperativas.

Desde entonces, los avances han sido escasos; 50 a??os despu??s de
promulgada la Ley, el hombre del campo no ha ganado autonom??a.

"A las antiguas 'granjas del pueblo' las llaman hoy Unidades B??sicas de
Producci??n Cooperativa. En teor??a, los trabajadores eligen las juntas
directivas, pero eso es una ficci??n; los administradores los sugiere el
gobierno y los trabajadores s??lo 'levantan la mano' para aprobar",
lament?? un ingeniero agr??nomo jubilado que comenz?? su experiencia
pol??tica y agr??cola como interventor en el INRA.

"De todas formas, aunque los trabajadores eligieran a los
administradores, estos no podr??an hacer otra cosa que cumplir las
ordenes del Ministerio de la Agricultura o del Az??car. Un administrador
no decide cu??ndo compra un tractor o el petr??leo que necesita; tampoco
decide cu??ndo iniciar o concluir la roturaci??n o la cosecha. Esos son
'planes de arriba'. Por ese mismo carril llegan la maquinaria, el
combustible y las piezas de repuesto, y sale la cosecha. Ese es el
bloqueo a la producci??n", a??adi??.

En el discurso por el 26 de julio pronunciado en Camag??ey en 2007, Ra??l
Castro dijo que el gobierno analizaba "cambios estructurales y de
concepto" para solucionar los problemas de la Isla. Dos a??os despu??s,
poco se ha movido.

Precisamente en Camag??ey, donde el general Castro reconoci?? el desastre
de la agricultura y la necesidad de cambios, se est?? perdiendo la
cosecha de arroz, mientras Cuba carece de ese grano y tiene que importarlo.

Torpezas estructurales

Los medios oficiales reconocen que no hay camiones para transportar, ni
capacidad de secado; que los campesinos s??lo cuentan con mezclas de
semillas y carecen de variedades de ciclo corto e intermedios para
escalonar la cosecha. En la estaci??n territorial de investigaciones del
arroz no hay ni tel??fono

"Con esas condiciones de trabajo, cualquiera pierde una cosecha. Pero
resulta que, por la misma raz??n que yo le pido a usted que no divulgue
mi nombre, los medios oficiales s??lo enuncian los problemas y no
denuncian sus causas", dijo el ingeniero jubilado.

"Tambi??n por miedo, los comunistas no pueden hacer 'cambios
estructurales y de concepto' en la agricultura. El d??a que un agricultor
sea due??o de su tierra y cuente con maquinaria, semillas y mercado
libre, ya no ser?? el hombre de 'la hoz y el martillo', tendr?? un
pasaporte en el bolsillo y una visa de turista", agreg??.

"??Qu?? China y Vietnam siguen siendo dictaduras comunistas?, cierto; pero
es dudoso que, salvo en ret??rica, contin??en siendo marxista-leninistas.
Ojala Cuba siga ese camino, al menos ir??amos alej??ndonos del monopolio
de una autocracia para acercarnos a la transici??n postsocialista", opin??
el agr??nomo.

De momento, la Isla importa arroz, mientras por "torpezas estructurales
y de concepto" pierde parte de su ya menguada cosecha.

La situaci??n se repite de cultivo en cultivo. Este a??o hubo una
excelente cosecha de tomates, de la que buena parte se pudri?? en los
campos y en los almacenes por falta de transporte y de empaque.

En 1960, la Isla consumi?? 7,9 millones de quintales de arroz, de los
cuales produjo 4,5 millones. Cabr??a preguntarse si la falta de
abastecimiento actual es exigible a los agricultores o a los pol??ticos.

?? cubaencuentro.com

Bloqueo a la producci??n - Art??culos - Cuba - cubaencuentro.com (4
September 2009)
http://www.cubaencuentro.com/es/cuba/articulos/bloqueo-a-la-producc...

PL

9/30/2009 7:34:00 PM

Seeds of change in Cuban farming
By Michael Voss
BBC News, Camaguey

It could be a scene straight out of the Wild West: a homesteader
struggling to tame a wilderness and turn it into productive farmland to
provide a living for himself and his family.

But this struggle of man against the land is happening in the central
province of Camaguey in Cuba.

Jorge Alcides has no electricity in the simple wooden home he built for
his pregnant wife and two children.

He milks his three dairy cows by hand, sitting on a handmade stool. He
and his son plough the fields using oxen. But he is not complaining.

" If you don't work the land you should lose it and let someone else
take over "
Jorge Alcides

"I'm really happy, it's different when you work for yourself rather than
being paid a wage," he said.

Communist Cuba is undergoing one of the largest land redistributions
since Fidel Castro's revolution in 1959; only this time it is leasing
state-owned farmland to the private sector.

In a bid to boost production and reduce costly imports, President Raul
Castro is offering small plots of unproductive state land to family
farmers and private co-operatives.

Around 1.7 million hectares (4.2 million acres) are up for grabs. So far
about 86,000 applications for land have been approved, with tens of
thousands more Cubans hoping to participate.

Back-breaking work

Last year, Mr Alcides received an extra 13 hectares of land, with a
promise of more if he makes it work.

The catch was that all of it was covered in a thick, impenetrable shrub
called "marabu".

It is like a bramble on steroids - a nightmare to get rid of. The weed
can grow up to 4m (13 feet), has deep roots and is so dense that once it
takes hold nothing else can grow.

Mr Alcides is part of a private co-operative which gives him access to a
1960s Soviet-built tractor with a locally built rotary cutter attached.

It's still back-breaking work. After the shrub is cut, it must be burned
and its roots dug out.

The fields had been part of a state-run collective farm which had been
allowed to go to waste.

"If you don't work the land you should lose it and let someone else take
over," Mr Alcides said.

He has managed to clear about three-quarters of the plot and so far this
year he has produced some 10 tonnes of meat, fruit and vegetables.

Private markets

The Renato Guitart Co-operative is a collection of individual
smallholders: 187 private farmers who have joined together for
investment and to share equipment such as tractors.

It has grown by almost a third over the past year and now covers about
520 hectares (1,300 acres) in the green fertile plains of Camaguey.

Mostly this is cattle country, dominated by large state-run farms. But
the co-operative produces a wide range of fruit and vegetables, along
with meat and dairy.

Agustin Perez, a member of the co-operative, is working hard to meet the
demand for fresh lettuce.

His grandfather first worked this land, concentrating on salad crops
such lettuce, cucumbers, radishes and onions.

In the past private farmers were tolerated; now Mr Perez believes they
are being actively encouraged.

It is not just about extra land. Another key reform is that private
farmers are now legally allowed to take on hired labour.

"There has been an enormous difference in the last two years. The
authorities are paying a lot more attention to us. Now we earn more
money because we are selling more food," he said.

Mr Perez is able to sell everything he grows to privately run farmers'
markets.

Early every morning, stall holders arrive to collect whatever is freshly
picked .Some come on horse and carts, others on converted bicycles with
trailers.

Other members of the co-operative though, like pig farmer Jorge Viera,
still have to sell to the state and rely on inefficient state transport.

Mr Viera recently cleared almost 30 hectares of marabu and has planted
maize and root crops to use as animal feed. He hopes to boost meat
production by 20% this year.

"We sell our basic quota to the state at a not very good price," he
explained, "but for anything above the quota the state pays a much
higher price."

Food imports

Agricultural reform was at the heart of the Cuban revolution. Shortly
after taking power in 1959, Fidel Castro nationalised the large estates
and sugar plantations, many of them US-owned.

Small-scale family farmers were allowed to keep their land but
increasingly the island turned towards huge Soviet-style state-run
collective farms.

It has not worked.

Last year, Cuba spent $2.4bn (??1.5bn) on food imports, much of which
could have been produced on the island.

The large state farms have proved highly inefficient, and allowed as
much as half of the land to become overrun with weeds like marabu.

Today, about a third of Cuba's farmland is in the hands of small-scale
private farmers and co-operatives, yet they produce about two-thirds of
the food.

Handing over unproductive land is only part of the equation. Farmers
still need access to tools, seeds, fertilisers and other necessities.

It is starting to happen but is often bureaucratic and unwieldy.

In Camaguey, part of what the state pays private farmers for their
produce is in the form of accumulated credits or bonus points. These can
then be exchanged for goods at newly created special farm shops.

According to the local small farmers' association, average earnings have
risen to around $200 a month, roughly 10 times the national average.
Some are making significantly more.

Incentives, like the profit motive and productivity-related pay, are
reappearing after half a century of an idealistic experiment in
egalitarian socialism.

It is too early to tell whether these reforms will be far-reaching
enough to make a dramatic impact on food shortages.

But if private farmers are seen to be successfully boosting production
and earning a better living, then President Raul Castro is likely to
face increasing pressure to push through similar free-market reforms to
the rest of the economy as well.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/8...

Published: 2009/09/30 12:21:16 GMT

Dan Christensen

10/1/2009 4:10:00 AM

On Sep 30, 2:59 pm, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
> Dan Christensen wrote:
> > On Sep 30, 4:53 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
> >> Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
> >> Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
> >> BY RUI FERREIRA
> >> El Nuevo Herald
>
> >> Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be totally
> >> developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
> >> Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.
>
> >> William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
> >> Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
> >> and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
> >> the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
> >> larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''
>
> > So your beloved embargo is not only blocking and limiting sales of US
> > and other exports to Cuba (Amnesty Intentional), but according to
> > Messina here, it is also putting severe limitations on the development
> > of domestic food production.
>
> (snip)
>
> Nope.
> that isn't what he is saying.
> He puts the blame squarely on the mismanagement by the regime: no
> investment. Once investment is allowed the situation will improve.

Actually, he said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
Treaty.'' That is, once the embargo is lifted he predicts that there
will be a dramatic increase in Cuban food production. Yet another of
your lies exposed, Mr. Lobbyist. Must be frustrating as hell for you.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at http://tiny....
(Note new address. Please update your bookmarks and links.)

Dan Christensen

10/1/2009 4:44:00 AM

On Sep 30, 2:59 pm, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
> Dan Christensen wrote:
> > On Sep 30, 4:53 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
> >> Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
> >> Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
> >> BY RUI FERREIRA
> >> El Nuevo Herald
>
> >> Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be totally
> >> developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
> >> Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.
>
> >> William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
> >> Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
> >> and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
> >> the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
> >> larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''
>
> > So your beloved embargo is not only blocking and limiting sales of US
> > and other exports to Cuba (Amnesty Intentional), but according to
> > Messina here, it is also putting severe limitations on the development
> > of domestic food production.
>
> (snip)
>
> Nope.
> that isn't what he is saying.
> He puts the blame squarely on the mismanagement by the regime: no
> investment. Once investment is allowed the situation will improve.
>
[snip]

Actually, he said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
Treaty.'' That is, once the embargo is lifted he predicts that there
will be a dramatic increase in Cuban food production. Yet another of
your lies exposed, Mr. Lobbyist. Must be frustrating as hell for you.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at http://tiny....
(Note new address. Please update your bookmarks and links.)

PL

10/1/2009 9:22:00 AM

Dan Christensen wrote:
> On Sep 30, 2:59 pm, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
>> Dan Christensen wrote:
>>> On Sep 30, 4:53 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
>>>> Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
>>>> Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
>>>> BY RUI FERREIRA
>>>> El Nuevo Herald
>>>> Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be totally
>>>> developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
>>>> Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.
>>>> William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
>>>> Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
>>>> and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
>>>> the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
>>>> larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''
>>> So your beloved embargo is not only blocking and limiting sales of US
>>> and other exports to Cuba (Amnesty Intentional), but according to
>>> Messina here, it is also putting severe limitations on the development
>>> of domestic food production.
>> (snip)
>>
>> Nope.
>> that isn't what he is saying.
>> He puts the blame squarely on the mismanagement by the regime: no
>> investment. Once investment is allowed the situation will improve.
>
> Actually, he said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
> market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
> Treaty.'' That is, once the embargo is lifted he predicts that there
> will be a dramatic increase in Cuban food production.

Nope.
He says something about the size of the market on the continent.
Not on the efficiency of production.
There he talks about the need for investment.
All experts agree that the sorry state of the Cuban agriculture is the
mismanagement as shown in the two articles I posted.

Even Raul Castro agrees.

El campo sigue esperando por los 'cambios estructurales y de concepto'
prometidos por el general Castro.

Bloqueo a la producci??n - Art??culos - Cuba - cubaencuentro.com (4
September 2009)
http://www.cubaencuentro.com/es/cuba/articulos/bloqueo-a-la-producc...

Seeds of change in Cuban farming
By Michael Voss
BBC News, Camaguey
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/8...
Published: 2009/09/30 12:21:16 GMT

What desperate serial liar Dan Christensen snipped:

``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
regulation.''

``Food and agricultural exports went down approximately 20 percent so
far this year due to the consistent lack of foreign currency in Cuba,''
Kavulich said. ``They have always opted to use that type of currency to
buy food.''

Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
BY RUI FERREIRA
El Nuevo Herald

Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be totally
developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.

William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''

``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
regulation.''

The UF expert mentioned the fact that last year the hurricane season
inflicted huge harm on Cuban agriculture after the island was hit by two
hurricanes and a tropical storm. Cuba's losses amounted to $10 billion
and it lost all of its crops for the year.

The tragedy coincided with a decrease in food imports, said John
Kavulich, president of Cuba-U.S. Economic and Trade Council.

``Food and agricultural exports went down approximately 20 percent so
far this year due to the consistent lack of foreign currency in Cuba,''
Kavulich said. ``They have always opted to use that type of currency to
buy food.''

Messina and Kavulich came to Miami to take part in the annual conference
of the Americas, hosted by The Miami Herald and El Nuevo Herald. With
them was Carlo Dade, director of the Canadian Foundation for the
Americas, who will travel to Havana next week at a time in which the
trade links of his country with the communist island have suffered a
significant contraction.

``At this time we see Cuba's future in terms of new opportunities,''
Dade said. ``We must continue to explore possibilities in economic
terms, since many of our joint projects have nearly disappeared.''

In his opinion, since the '90s, Canadian investments in Cuba diversified
in the areas of oil and mineral extractions, but now they are decreasing
due to the fall in prices in the case of minerals, and the lack of Cuban
investments in the case of oil.

``Our businesses have had a presence, but I can't say it's significant
at this time,'' Dade said.

According to the expert, when agricultural imports opened in Cuba, the
United States had an advantage over Canada.

``Canada is a good exporter of agricultural products, but when the
United States began to sell to Cuba, our business with Cuba changed. Our
entrepreneurs turned to other Latin American countries such as Peru and
Ecuador. ''

Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says - Americas -
MiamiHerald.com (29 September 2009)
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/12...

PL

PL

10/1/2009 9:23:00 AM

Dan Christensen wrote:

Twice the same in his usual despair.

Dan Christensen wrote:
> On Sep 30, 2:59 pm, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
>> Dan Christensen wrote:
>>> On Sep 30, 4:53 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
>>>> Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
>>>> Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
>>>> BY RUI FERREIRA
>>>> El Nuevo Herald
>>>> Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be
totally
>>>> developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
>>>> Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.
>>>> William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
>>>> Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
>>>> and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
>>>> the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
>>>> larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''
>>> So your beloved embargo is not only blocking and limiting sales of US
>>> and other exports to Cuba (Amnesty Intentional), but according to
>>> Messina here, it is also putting severe limitations on the development
>>> of domestic food production.
>> (snip)
>>
>> Nope.
>> that isn't what he is saying.
>> He puts the blame squarely on the mismanagement by the regime: no
>> investment. Once investment is allowed the situation will improve.
>
> Actually, he said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
> market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
> Treaty.'' That is, once the embargo is lifted he predicts that there
> will be a dramatic increase in Cuban food production.

Nope.
He says something about the size of the market on the continent.
Not on the efficiency of production.
There he talks about the need for investment.
All experts agree that the sorry state of the Cuban agriculture is the
mismanagement as shown in the two articles I posted.

Even Raul Castro agrees.

El campo sigue esperando por los 'cambios estructurales y de concepto'
prometidos por el general Castro.

Bloqueo a la producci??n - Art??culos - Cuba - cubaencuentro.com (4
September 2009)
http://www.cubaencuentro.com/es/cuba/articulos/bloqueo-a-la-producc...

Seeds of change in Cuban farming
By Michael Voss
BBC News, Camaguey
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/8...
Published: 2009/09/30 12:21:16 GMT

What desperate serial liar Dan Christensen snipped:

``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
regulation.''

``Food and agricultural exports went down approximately 20 percent so
far this year due to the consistent lack of foreign currency in Cuba,''
Kavulich said. ``They have always opted to use that type of currency to
buy food.''

Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
BY RUI FERREIRA
El Nuevo Herald

Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be totally
developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.

William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''

``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
regulation.''

The UF expert mentioned the fact that last year the hurricane season
inflicted huge harm on Cuban agriculture after the island was hit by two
hurricanes and a tropical storm. Cuba's losses amounted to $10 billion
and it lost all of its crops for the year.

The tragedy coincided with a decrease in food imports, said John
Kavulich, president of Cuba-U.S. Economic and Trade Council.

``Food and agricultural exports went down approximately 20 percent so
far this year due to the consistent lack of foreign currency in Cuba,''
Kavulich said. ``They have always opted to use that type of currency to
buy food.''

Messina and Kavulich came to Miami to take part in the annual conference
of the Americas, hosted by The Miami Herald and El Nuevo Herald. With
them was Carlo Dade, director of the Canadian Foundation for the
Americas, who will travel to Havana next week at a time in which the
trade links of his country with the communist island have suffered a
significant contraction.

``At this time we see Cuba's future in terms of new opportunities,''
Dade said. ``We must continue to explore possibilities in economic
terms, since many of our joint projects have nearly disappeared.''

In his opinion, since the '90s, Canadian investments in Cuba diversified
in the areas of oil and mineral extractions, but now they are decreasing
due to the fall in prices in the case of minerals, and the lack of Cuban
investments in the case of oil.

``Our businesses have had a presence, but I can't say it's significant
at this time,'' Dade said.

According to the expert, when agricultural imports opened in Cuba, the
United States had an advantage over Canada.

``Canada is a good exporter of agricultural products, but when the
United States began to sell to Cuba, our business with Cuba changed. Our
entrepreneurs turned to other Latin American countries such as Peru and
Ecuador. ''

Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says - Americas -
MiamiHerald.com (29 September 2009)
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/12...

PL

Dan Christensen

10/1/2009 3:52:00 PM

On Oct 1, 5:23 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
> Dan Christensen wrote:
>
> Twice the same in his usual despair.
>
> Dan Christensen wrote:
>
> > On Sep 30, 2:59 pm, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
> >> Dan Christensen wrote:
> >>> On Sep 30, 4:53 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
> >>>> Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
> >>>> Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
> >>>> BY RUI FERREIRA
> >>>> El Nuevo Herald
> >>>> Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be
> totally
> >>>> developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
> >>>> Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.
> >>>> William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
> >>>> Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
> >>>> and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
> >>>> the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
> >>>> larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''
> >>> So your beloved embargo is not only blocking and limiting sales of US
> >>> and other exports to Cuba (Amnesty Intentional), but according to
> >>> Messina here, it is also putting severe limitations on the development
> >>> of domestic food production.
> >> (snip)
> >>
> >> Nope.
> >> that isn't what he is saying.
> >> He puts the blame squarely on the mismanagement by the regime: no
> >> investment. Once investment is allowed the situation will improve.
> >
> > Actually, he said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
> > market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
> > Treaty.'' That is, once the embargo is lifted he predicts that there
> > will be a dramatic increase in Cuban food production.
>
> Nope.

Again, Messina said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
Treaty.''

What "impact" on the market could he be referring to? Only that with
the opening of the huge US market to Cuban farmers and the end to the
aggressive sabotaging of the Cuban economy by the US regime, there
would be unprecedented levels of investment in Cuban agriculture
resulting in dramatic increases in food production.

> All experts agree that the sorry state of the Cuban agriculture is the
> mismanagement as shown in the two articles I posted.
>

Messina sees your beloved embargo as standing in the way of the
required investments.

> Even Raul Castro agrees.
>
[snip]

Raul says only that by working harder and more efficiently, the
shortages caused by the US embargo could be overcome. This does not
contradict Messina's claim that lifting these cruel sanctions would
result in unprecedented levels of investment in Cuban agriculture --
your worst nightmare, eh, Mr. Lobbyist?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at http://tiny....
(Note new address. Please update your bookmarks and links.)

PL

10/1/2009 8:10:00 PM

Dan Christensen wrote:
> On Oct 1, 5:23 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
>> Dan Christensen wrote:
>>
>> Twice the same in his usual despair.
>>
>> Dan Christensen wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 30, 2:59 pm, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
>> >> Dan Christensen wrote:
>> >>> On Sep 30, 4:53 am, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:
>> >>>> Posted on Tuesday, 09.29.09
>> >>>> Cuba's agriculture shows promise, expert says
>> >>>> BY RUI FERREIRA
>> >>>> El Nuevo Herald
>> >>>> Cuban agriculture has such a big potential that if it were to be
>> totally
>> >>>> developed it could surpass the volume of production of the Free Trade
>> >>>> Treaty, an expert said Tuesday.
>> >>>> William A. Messina Jr., of the University of Florida's Agriculture
>> >>>> Science Institute, said that the communist island ``has such good soil
>> >>>> and it represents a challenge of such magnitude that, with the end of
>> >>>> the embargo, the agricultural market impact on the continent would be
>> >>>> larger that of the Free Trade Treaty.''
>> >>> So your beloved embargo is not only blocking and limiting sales of US
>> >>> and other exports to Cuba (Amnesty Intentional), but according to
>> >>> Messina here, it is also putting severe limitations on the development
>> >>> of domestic food production.
>> >> (snip)
>> >>
>> >> Nope.
>> >> that isn't what he is saying.
>> >> He puts the blame squarely on the mismanagement by the regime: no
>> >> investment. Once investment is allowed the situation will improve.
>> >
>> > Actually, he said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
>> > market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
>> > Treaty.'' That is, once the embargo is lifted he predicts that there
>> > will be a dramatic increase in Cuban food production.
>>
>> Nope.
>
> Again, Messina said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
> market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
> Treaty.''
(snip)

Impact on the market, indeed.

What is said about

- what the Cuban system needs to develop

``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
regulation.''

- why agriculture declined:

``Food and agricultural exports went down approximately 20 percent so
far this year due to the consistent lack of foreign currency in Cuba,''
Kavulich said. ``They have always opted to use that type of currency to
buy food.''

>> All experts agree that the sorry state of the Cuban agriculture is the
>> mismanagement as shown in the two articles I posted.
>>
>
> Messina sees (snip)

Messina says that Cuban regulation stands in the way of development as
most experts do.

``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
regulation.''

>> Even Raul Castro agrees.
>>
> [snip]
>
> Raul says only that by working harder and more efficiently,
(snip)

and by changes to the system giving more room to private initiative.
Again you go down in flames.

PL

Dan Christensen

10/2/2009 2:41:00 PM

On Oct 1, 4:09 pm, PL <pl.nos...@pandora.be> wrote:

[snip]

> >> > Actually, he said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
> >> > market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
> >> > Treaty.'' That is, once the embargo is lifted he predicts that there
> >> > will be a dramatic increase in Cuban food production.
>
> >> Nope.
>
> > Again, Messina said, "With the end of the embargo, the agricultural
> > market impact on the continent would be larger that of the Free Trade
> > Treaty.''
>
> (snip)
>
> Impact on the market, indeed.
>
> What is said about
>
> - what the Cuban system needs to develop
>
> ``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
> agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
> that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
> regulation.''
>

This does not contradict the fact he claims lifting the embargo alone
would have a huge impact on the entire continental agricultural
market.

> - why agriculture declined:
>
> ``Food and agricultural exports went down approximately 20 percent so
> far this year due to the consistent lack of foreign currency in Cuba,''
> Kavulich said. ``They have always opted to use that type of currency to
> buy food.''
>

Previous comment applies here, too.

> >> All experts agree that the sorry state of the Cuban agriculture is the
> >> mismanagement as shown in the two articles I posted.
>
> > Messina sees (snip)
>
> Messina says that Cuban regulation stands in the way of development as
> most experts do.
>

Nevertheless, he also says lifting the embargo alone would have a huge
positive impact on Cuba food production -- your worst nightmare, eh,
Mr. Lobbyist?

> ``The Cuban climate is very good, has good resources, and an
> agricultural system with potential,'' Messina said. ``But the truth is
> that we don't see big trends toward its development in terms of
> regulation.''
>
> >> Even Raul Castro agrees.
>
> > [snip]
>
> > Raul says only that by working harder and more efficiently,
>
> (snip)
>
> and by changes to the system giving more room to private initiative.

Again, this does not contradict Messina's claim that lifting these
cruel sanctions of yours would have a huge positive impact on Cuban
food production. Again, he wrote, "With the end of the embargo, the
agricultural market impact on the continent would be larger that of
the Free Trade Treaty.''

Yet another of your lies exposed.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at http://tiny....
(Note new address. Please update your bookmarks and links.)

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