hersheyh
6/5/2011 6:17:00 PM
On Jun 5, 2:42 am, jr92 <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 31, 6:00 pm, hersheyh <hershe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 31, 1:15 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
> > > jr92 <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >On May 31, 2:28 am, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> > > >> jr92 <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >10K says that in five years, the government will continue to make 10
> > > >> >times (or more) profit on every gallon of gasoline sold in the US than
> > > >> >those evil, captialistic oil companies will.
>
> > > >> Sure. Of course, you've already lost your bet. Not only does the
> > > >> government not make profits, ever, the cost of maintaining the roads
> > > >> is higher than the tax collected from the sale of gasoline.
>
> > > >Let's see, smart guy, the government does nothing at all.
>
> > So, you think the road fairy comes along and builds the roads you
> > drive using fairy dust?
>
> > > So you claim, but that's a remarkably stupid claim.
>
> > > > Sits on its
> > > >collective asses.
>
> > > What turned you into such a bitter asshole?
>
> > He probably sits on his ass collecting unemployment.
>
> > > > Draws over 30 cents a gallon in excise taxes.
>
> > > 18.4 cents.
>
> > Which, given 20.5 mpg as an average, amounts to 0.9 cents/mile
> > driven. The average cost of driving a motor vehicle is about 51 cents/
> > mile (gas, car cost, insurance, etc.) Which makes the tax that pays
> > for the roadway building and repair of federal highways (and many
> > local road improvements as well), less than 2% of the cost of
> > driving. Anyhow, the total annual take of the tax used for roads
> > (some is used for mass transit) is 1.4 billion per penny of tax, or
> > about 26 billion per year. That is compared to, for example, the 58
> > billion for road improvements in 2009 (not counting the extra 50
> > billion from the stimulus). That is for bridges, repair, widening,
> > new road, etc. Most of it goes for repair of existing road and bridge
> > repair and replacement.
>
> > In fact, there has been, if anything, a deterioration of
> > infrastructure with 17% of roads and 25% of bridges being considered
> > in poor or mediocre condition.
>
> The tax money raised should go for reparis of roads, not to
> beaurocrats. If the money is used in the right way, there is plenty to
> cover repairs.
>
Almost all of the gas (and diesel) money goes directly into building
and repairing roads. It *all* goes to the Highway Trust Fund and can
*only* be used for transportation infrastructure. About 1/8th goes to
mass transit. The rest goes to roads. Currently none of it can go to
deficit reduction (when George Bush the First raised the gas tax,
about 4 cents per gallon was dedicated to deficit reduction; George
the Second changed that so it all goes to transportation related
services.). Currently (since the 2008 recession) the HTF is being
bailed out by money from income taxes, as it is officially 'broke'.
That was $8 billion in 2008, $7 billion in 2009, and $19+ billion in
2010. In addition, about $45 billion of the stimulus was directed to
transportation infrastructure (projects that the HTF could not fund).
I should note that, unlike us average Joes, although truckers do pay a
bit more in gas taxes and additional amounts related to the weights of
their rigs (and the consequent extra damage due to that weight), they
*also* can subtract their fuel costs as a business expense in
determining their income. That does mean a significant shift of their
tax bill. The tax they pay on fuels is directed to and subsidizes the
roads that they rely on and because of the way income taxes are
adjusted, they pay less to the general welfare.
You seem to be claiming that most of the billions of dollars goes to
bureaucrats in Washington rather than to private contractors and their
workers who build roads. I rather doubt that. I suspect the
administrative costs are at most 1-2% and some of that is necessary.
You do need someone to check that contractors are using the quality of
concrete they claim and that the roads are built to modern safety
standards. It would stupid to think that all contractors (chosen by
competitive low bid) are unwilling to cut corners.
>
> > > >Multiply that by billions upon billions of times. Now, during the
> > > >course of my driving the distance one gallon of gasoline will take me,
> > > >do I do enough damage to warrant 30 cents in repairs? Of course not!
>
> > The cost per mile of *building* a road can vary by several orders of
> > magnitude depending on the cost of land (urban or rural), the type of
> > land (mountainous or flat; crossed by rivers or swamps), and the
> > amount and type of traffic it will have to carry. Look up the costs
> > of widening roads in your local area to get a feel of the costs. In
> > heavily travelled interstates within urban areas, the cost can be in
> > the billions per mile, as can the cost of keeping it in repair.
>
> > And, in "heavily travelled interstates within urban areas" revenues raised will be billions of dollars, by nature. More drivers use these roads, more gasoline is used on these roads by drivers, more tax revenue is raised on these drivers, so more money should be available for repairs. If it were only so simple!
>
> > > But you don't know shit about the real cost of maintaining roads.
> > > You're just a bitter moron who whines that he doesn't want to pay for
> > > the services he gets.
>
> I don't mind paying for the services I get. I just don't want to work
> for the services I pay for, and then have to pay for services
> non=workers such as you will enjoy as well.
Paying taxes for services that I will not (and, often, hope never to
have to use) use is part of the cost of living in civilized modern
country. Somalia and Pakistan are examples of societies with low tax
rates where the rich live comfortably because they have personal
generators instead of a reliable electric grid and service, bottled
water and personal purification systems instead of public water
systems, bodyguards instead of police, private schools for their kids
and no or poor schools for the rest, flights to hospitals in London
instead of a national medical system (let the poor die early, if you
die of bacteria because there is no sewer system or clean water, it's
your own damn fault), where, if a typhoon or flood strikes, tough
shit. Make any comparison you want between countries that have low
taxes and those with relatively higher taxes. The amount of
inequality and misery is almost uniformly higher in the former, and
national well-being is almost uniformly higher in the latter. So
where would you want to live?
> > > You're a thief, in other words.
>
> > Well, a child who thinks that things work by magic rather than hard
> > work and who really does believe in a free lunch.
>
> > > --
> > > Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
> > > rfisc...@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -