alvin
4/19/2011 2:27:00 PM
On Apr 15, 2:32 pm, Andrew <agump...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 6:33 pm, alvin <apbluth...@aol.com> wrote:
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> > On Apr 10, 9:33 pm, Andrew <agump...@gmail.com> wrote:
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> > > On Apr 10, 6:14 pm, alvin <apbluth...@aol.com> wrote:
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> > > > On Apr 10, 2:24 pm, Brad <b...@umich.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > > These are questions about "standard" American practice, i.e. what is
> > > > > in place if there have not been other discussed agreements in the
> > > > > partnership. I am interested to know how nearly "standard" this is:
>
> > > > > 1. Partner leads A or K (from AK+) in a plain suit against a trump
> > > > > contract, and dummy comes down with Qxx(x). 3rd hand now by default
> > > > > signals count, instead of attitude or suit pref. Correct?
>
> > > > > 2. If leader then cashes the other high honor, setting up dummy's Q,
> > > > > 3rd hand's signal at this trick is suit pref. Correct?
>
> > > > > 3. If the bidding has already made it 100% clear to opening leader
> > > > > what partner's exact length in the suit is, and therefore an immediate
> > > > > count signal by 3rd hand would be useless, is 3rd hand's card
> > > > > attitude, suit pref, or still count?
>
> > > > > 4. Does any of this change if the partnership is playing "Ace for
> > > > > attitude, King for kount" against suits? Or, does the situation of
> > > > > guarded Q in dummy overrule everything?
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> > > > > 5. Any other exceptional situations where 3rd hand's play behind the
> > > > > guarded Q should "automatically" mean such-and-such?
>
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Brad Lehman
>
> > > > Brad:
>
> > > > here are my two cents on the your questions:
>
> > > > 1. Partner leads A or K (from AK+) in a plain suit against a trump
> > > > contract, and dummy comes down with Qxx(x). 3rd hand now by default
> > > > signals count, instead of attitude or suit pref. Correct?
>
> > > > I would think so. His attitude is known to be negative. Typically,
> > > > third hand will show a doubleton, if he is seeking a ruff. If he holds
> > > > three or more (so that no ruff is possible), go on to question 2.
>
> > > Alvin, you are implicitly saying that 3rd hand's signal is not a true
> > > count signal since you recommend false count from 4 to prevent opening
> > > leader from trying to give you a ruff.
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> > > Andrew- Hide quoted text -
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> > > - Show quoted text -
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> > Andrew:
>
> > If, by count, you mean "parity," (i. e., oddness or evenness of the
> > holding), your reading of my intention is correct - I do not intend to
> > show this. In this situation being discussed (Qxx(x) in dummy; king
> > led from AK - same is true if the ace were led from this holding),
> > opener has no need to know whether his partner holds three or four (no
> > ruff being possible in either case), so I am not suggesting that these
> > numbers be clarified. This makes it clear, however, that a high spot
> > shows exactly two cards and the desire to take a ruff. Third hand
> > would also signal low (this is standard signalling, not UDCA) with a
> > doubleton and no desire for the ruff, e. g., holding a natural trump
> > trick where a ruff cannot add to the defensive trick count. This
> > signalling method allows opener to make a productive shift when third
> > hand does not seek the ruff.
>
> You have described what I would call an attitude signal. Given that
> signaller is known to hold none of the top 3 honors, he only signals
> positive attitude to indicate desire to take a ruff.
>
> IMO, a count signal is always a parity signal, pure and simple.
>
> Andrew- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -
Andrew:
You present an interesting point: does showing a doubleton and seeking
aruff qualify as a count signal or as an attitude signal, when not
seeking to show other holdings with an even number of cards?
The Granovetters, for example, in A Switch in Time, p. 10, treat this
signal as a count signal WHEN SEEKING A RUFF. Although they state that
they do not give count with a tripleton (presumably they intend that
their low card in that situation is attitude), they do not directly
address a holding of four or six.
Kantar, in his "Big Red Book," Defensive Bridge Play Complete, treats
"the HIGH-LOW with a doubleton," as a case all of its own (see pp.
58-60) and suggests that you not signal this way, hollding the Qx, J
NOT visible in dummy (because the queen would promise the jack, not a
doublteon, in that situation). :
We can, of course, throw authorities at each other all we want, and
besides, as Lincoln pointed our, calling a dog's tail a leg doesn't
make it one.