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Any YARV pre-questions in RubyConf2004?

SASADA Koichi

9/27/2004 8:27:00 PM

Hi,

I will show presentation about "YARV - Yet Another RubyVM"
in RubyConf2004.

But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.

Does anyone have any question about YARV or something I can
answer? If you gime me that, I'll prepare to answer that.

(And because I can't listen English well, answering direct
is too hard for me :X)


I look forward to seeing you > RubyConf2004 attendances

Regards,
--
// SASADA Koichi at atdot dot net
//

# If no ideas, I will talk about making of Rubyist Magazine.
19 Answers

James Britt

9/27/2004 9:29:00 PM

0

SASADA Koichi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I will show presentation about "YARV - Yet Another RubyVM"
> in RubyConf2004.
>
> But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.

Unless you've given this presentation before, time estimates can be hard
to get right. You may end up running longer than you think.

And if you don't use a full 40 minutes, it may balance out if the other
speakers are running longer than their alloted time.

>
> Does anyone have any question about YARV or something I can
> answer? If you gime me that, I'll prepare to answer that.

It seems to me that just the general idea of a VM would take a fair
amount of time to explain, particularly if he VM is for a dynamic
language. Anyway, here are some questions:

Why bother?

Where do you begin when designing a VM?

What are the options?

Are there some common VM architectures?

Why not just target the Java or .Net (or compatible) VMs?

How do you handle dynamic class changes (for example, adding a new
method to String at run time)?

What are the really hard parts?

What surprised you?



James

James Gray

9/27/2004 9:33:00 PM

0

On Sep 27, 2004, at 4:29 PM, James Britt wrote:

> Why not just target the Java or .Net (or compatible) VMs?

... or Parrot?

James Edward Gray II

Eivind Eklund

9/27/2004 9:41:00 PM

0

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 05:27:18 +0900, SASADA Koichi <ko1@atdot.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I will show presentation about "YARV - Yet Another RubyVM"
> in RubyConf2004.
>
> But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.
>
> Does anyone have any question about YARV or something I can
> answer? If you gime me that, I'll prepare to answer that.

I won't be at RubyConf (unfortunately), but I've still got one
question: Does the structure of YARVM allow a gradual transition from
the standard Ruby node structure to JITed code, or is it a Big Bang
approach?

Eivind.

dblack

9/27/2004 9:44:00 PM

0

Jamis Buck

9/27/2004 10:18:00 PM

0

David A. Black wrote:
> Hi --
>
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, James Britt wrote:
>
>
>>SASADA Koichi wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I will show presentation about "YARV - Yet Another RubyVM"
>>>in RubyConf2004.
>>>
>>>But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.
>>
>>Unless you've given this presentation before, time estimates can be hard
>>to get right. You may end up running longer than you think.
>>
>>And if you don't use a full 40 minutes, it may balance out if the other
>>speakers are running longer than their alloted time.
>
>
> Perish the thought! :-)

:) I'm actually kind of worried. I did a preview demonstration of my
presentation to my local RUG, and it went for almost exactly an hour...

Have your tomatoes handy, if I start going overtime. :)

--
Jamis Buck
jgb3@email.byu.edu
http://www.jamisbuck...

Alexander Kellett

9/27/2004 10:41:00 PM

0

On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 05:27:18AM +0900, SASADA Koichi wrote:
> But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.

i've got a large number of questions that you may find useful :)

> Does anyone have any question about YARV or something I can
> answer? If you gime me that, I'll prepare to answer that.

here's the beginning. i'll think of somemore to ask in the
coming days :)

will the standard library be written in ruby or c?

what is the time frame you are aiming to keep to?
any idea when you'll see results?

what ruby code can yarv currently execute?

do you plan to perform code/bytecode optimisations
during execution or only at compile time? if so,
what sort of optimisation do you think you will
be able to offer?

> (And because I can't listen English well, answering direct
> is too hard for me :X)

:/ i should practice my japanese (i know none :/) then as even
native english speakers sometimes have difficulty understand me :(

> I look forward to seeing you > RubyConf2004 attendances

unfortunately won't be able to make it :(
i hope that next year we can meet!

Alex

Yukihiro Matsumoto

9/27/2004 11:49:00 PM

0

Hi,

In message "Re: Any YARV pre-questions in RubyConf2004?"
on Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:29:08 +0900, James Britt <jamesUNDERBARb@neurogami.com> writes:

|> But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.
|
|Unless you've given this presentation before, time estimates can be hard
|to get right. You may end up running longer than you think.

Don't underestimate the language barrier. ;-)
I know exactly what he feels.

Be nice to him, please, conference attenders.

matz.

Chad Fowler

9/28/2004 12:06:00 AM

0

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:49:21 +0900, Yukihiro Matsumoto
<matz@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In message "Re: Any YARV pre-questions in RubyConf2004?"
> on Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:29:08 +0900, James Britt <jamesUNDERBARb@neurogami.com> writes:
>
> |> But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.
> |
> |Unless you've given this presentation before, time estimates can be hard
> |to get right. You may end up running longer than you think.
>
> Don't underestimate the language barrier. ;-)
> I know exactly what he feels.
>
> Be nice to him, please, conference attenders.
>

Speaking for everyone I think, we'll be honored to have him as our
guest at RubyConf. We value all of the attendees, but there's
something special about "original" Rubyists coming _all the way_ from
Japan.

We'll miss you this year, Matz.

Chad

James Britt

9/28/2004 12:26:00 AM

0

Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In message "Re: Any YARV pre-questions in RubyC onf2004?"
> on Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:29:08 +0900, James Britt <jamesUNDERBARb@neurogami.com> writes:
>
> |> But I have no enough topic to talk about that for 40 mins full.
> |
> |Unless you've given this presentation before, time estimates can be hard
> |to get right. You may end up running longer than you think.
>
> Don't underestimate the language barrier. ;-)
> I know exactly what he feels.
>
> Be nice to him, please, conference attenders.

Well, OK, since you asked so nicely.

:)

Having people pose questions here in advance should be a big help, so if
folks can think of anything, please speak up.

I saw Dan Sugalski give a talk in Parrot at local Perl users group, and
the topic of VMs can get quite deep.

Selection of architecture, byte code set, the compilation process; stuff
I used to know more about, once upon a college time, but has faded from
memory

It's going to be a challenge as it is, with the language barrier, so any
suggested topic or question should be quite useful. It's often hard to
know in advance just how familiar your audience is with your topic, and
it's tough to walk the line between stating the obvious and baffling the
crowd.

As for my questions, while I think a VM talk should probably explain why
one would bother, I also think we all have god ideas as to why this is a
Good Thing. And I'd be curious to know why the design does or doesn't
target an existing or expected VM/byte-code-set. But really I want to
understand the thinking process that lets one take an interpreted
language and move it to a VM.

James

Yukihiro Matsumoto

9/28/2004 12:51:00 AM

0

Hi,

In message "Re: Any YARV pre-questions in RubyConf2004?"
on Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:06:14 +0900, Chad Fowler <chadfowler@gmail.com> writes:

|We'll miss you this year, Matz.

I miss you all too. But I shouldn't miss my wife and baby this year.
I hope I can see you guys next year.

matz.