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Howard Swope

7/20/2004 7:20:00 PM

I am building an app that uses .Net remoting. My development machine is on
the company domain, but the environment in which it will be deployed is a
peer network. I test the app on any machine withing the domain and it works
fine. Testing on any machine on the peer network throws an unhandled
exception.

I let only one instance of the application run. If someone fires a second
instance off, I detect the first running instance and then use .Net remoting
to pass the command line arguments from the newly run app to the already
running app. The first instance will run fine on the peer network, but the
second instance throws the unhandled exception. You can see the second
instance specific code begin at [if (!granted)]. Any thoughts?

static void Main(string[] args)

{

// turn off com security

System.Threading.Thread.CurrentThread.ApartmentState =
System.Threading.ApartmentState.STA;

int ret = CoInitializeSecurity(IntPtr.Zero, -1, IntPtr.Zero,
IntPtr.Zero, 1, 3, IntPtr.Zero, 0, IntPtr.Zero);



// check to see if this is the first instance

bool granted;

Thread.CurrentThread.Priority = ThreadPriority.AboveNormal;

Mutex firstInstanceMutex = new Mutex(true,"FirstControlPanelMutex",out
granted);

if (!granted)

{

Thread.CurrentThread.Priority = ThreadPriority.Normal;

if (args.Length == 0)

return;



ChannelServices.RegisterChannel(new TcpChannel());

SPControlPanel thePanel =

(SPControlPanel)Activator.GetObject(typeof(SPControlPanel),"tcp://127.0.0.1:
8229/SPControlPanel");

thePanel.AddToPlayList(args);

return;

}



// Register channel services for remoting and the two root classes

TcpServerChannel tsc = new TcpServerChannel(8229);

ChannelServices.RegisterChannel(tsc);


RemotingConfiguration.RegisterWellKnownServiceType(typeof(SPControlPanel),"S
PControlPanel",WellKnownObjectMode.Singleton);





//#if !DEBUG

ExceptionHandler eh = new ExceptionHandler();

Application.ThreadException += new
ThreadExceptionEventHandler(eh.OnThreadException);

//#endif



Resources = new ResourceManager(typeof(SPControlPanel));

MainWnd = new MainWindow();

Monitor.Enter(MainWnd);

MainWnd.AddPlayListItemsFromCommandLine(args);

Application.Run(MainWnd);

}




--
Howard Swope [howardsnewsATspitzincDOTcom]
Software Engineer
Spitz, Inc [http://www.sp...]


8 Answers

Sunny

7/20/2004 8:02:00 PM

0

Hi,

and the exception is ...?

Sunny

In article <u3RJo3obEHA.796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, "Howard Swope"
<howardsusenetATspitzincDOTcom> says...
> I am building an app that uses .Net remoting. My development machine is on
> the company domain, but the environment in which it will be deployed is a
> peer network. I test the app on any machine withing the domain and it works
> fine. Testing on any machine on the peer network throws an unhandled
> exception.
>
> I let only one instance of the application run. If someone fires a second
> instance off, I detect the first running instance and then use .Net remoting
> to pass the command line arguments from the newly run app to the already
> running app. The first instance will run fine on the peer network, but the
> second instance throws the unhandled exception. You can see the second
> instance specific code begin at [if (!granted)]. Any thoughts?
>
> static void Main(string[] args)
>
> {
>
> // turn off com security
>
> System.Threading.Thread.CurrentThread.ApartmentState =
> System.Threading.ApartmentState.STA;
>
> int ret = CoInitializeSecurity(IntPtr.Zero, -1, IntPtr.Zero,
> IntPtr.Zero, 1, 3, IntPtr.Zero, 0, IntPtr.Zero);
>
>
>
> // check to see if this is the first instance
>
> bool granted;
>
> Thread.CurrentThread.Priority = ThreadPriority.AboveNormal;
>
> Mutex firstInstanceMutex = new Mutex(true,"FirstControlPanelMutex",out
> granted);
>
> if (!granted)
>
> {
>
> Thread.CurrentThread.Priority = ThreadPriority.Normal;
>
> if (args.Length == 0)
>
> return;
>
>
>
> ChannelServices.RegisterChannel(new TcpChannel());
>
> SPControlPanel thePanel =
>
> (SPControlPanel)Activator.GetObject(typeof(SPControlPanel),"tcp://127.0.0.1:
> 8229/SPControlPanel");
>
> thePanel.AddToPlayList(args);
>
> return;
>
> }
>
>
>
> // Register channel services for remoting and the two root classes
>
> TcpServerChannel tsc = new TcpServerChannel(8229);
>
> ChannelServices.RegisterChannel(tsc);
>
>
> RemotingConfiguration.RegisterWellKnownServiceType(typeof(SPControlPanel),"S
> PControlPanel",WellKnownObjectMode.Singleton);
>
>
>
>
>
> //#if !DEBUG
>
> ExceptionHandler eh = new ExceptionHandler();
>
> Application.ThreadException += new
> ThreadExceptionEventHandler(eh.OnThreadException);
>
> //#endif
>
>
>
> Resources = new ResourceManager(typeof(SPControlPanel));
>
> MainWnd = new MainWindow();
>
> Monitor.Enter(MainWnd);
>
> MainWnd.AddPlayListItemsFromCommandLine(args);
>
> Application.Run(MainWnd);
>
> }
>
>
>
>
>

Howard Swope

7/21/2004 6:07:00 PM

0

Whoops... Disregard

It was just coincidence that these symptoms were only occurring on the peer
network. It was a timing thing. I didn't realize my Mutex object was going
out of scope and releasing the mutex.

"Howard Swope" <howardsusenetATspitzincDOTcom> wrote in message
news:u3RJo3obEHA.796@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I am building an app that uses .Net remoting. My development machine is on
> the company domain, but the environment in which it will be deployed is a
> peer network. I test the app on any machine withing the domain and it
works
> fine. Testing on any machine on the peer network throws an unhandled
> exception.
>
> I let only one instance of the application run. If someone fires a second
> instance off, I detect the first running instance and then use .Net
remoting
> to pass the command line arguments from the newly run app to the already
> running app. The first instance will run fine on the peer network, but the
> second instance throws the unhandled exception. You can see the second
> instance specific code begin at [if (!granted)]. Any thoughts?
>
> static void Main(string[] args)
>
> {
>
> // turn off com security
>
> System.Threading.Thread.CurrentThread.ApartmentState =
> System.Threading.ApartmentState.STA;
>
> int ret = CoInitializeSecurity(IntPtr.Zero, -1, IntPtr.Zero,
> IntPtr.Zero, 1, 3, IntPtr.Zero, 0, IntPtr.Zero);
>
>
>
> // check to see if this is the first instance
>
> bool granted;
>
> Thread.CurrentThread.Priority = ThreadPriority.AboveNormal;
>
> Mutex firstInstanceMutex = new
Mutex(true,"FirstControlPanelMutex",out
> granted);
>
> if (!granted)
>
> {
>
> Thread.CurrentThread.Priority = ThreadPriority.Normal;
>
> if (args.Length == 0)
>
> return;
>
>
>
> ChannelServices.RegisterChannel(new TcpChannel());
>
> SPControlPanel thePanel =
>
>
(SPControlPanel)Activator.GetObject(typeof(SPControlPanel),"tcp://127.0.0.1:
> 8229/SPControlPanel");
>
> thePanel.AddToPlayList(args);
>
> return;
>
> }
>
>
>
> // Register channel services for remoting and the two root classes
>
> TcpServerChannel tsc = new TcpServerChannel(8229);
>
> ChannelServices.RegisterChannel(tsc);
>
>
>
RemotingConfiguration.RegisterWellKnownServiceType(typeof(SPControlPanel),"S
> PControlPanel",WellKnownObjectMode.Singleton);
>
>
>
>
>
> //#if !DEBUG
>
> ExceptionHandler eh = new ExceptionHandler();
>
> Application.ThreadException += new
> ThreadExceptionEventHandler(eh.OnThreadException);
>
> //#endif
>
>
>
> Resources = new ResourceManager(typeof(SPControlPanel));
>
> MainWnd = new MainWindow();
>
> Monitor.Enter(MainWnd);
>
> MainWnd.AddPlayListItemsFromCommandLine(args);
>
> Application.Run(MainWnd);
>
> }
>
>
>
>
> --
> Howard Swope [howardsnewsATspitzincDOTcom]
> Software Engineer
> Spitz, Inc [http://www.sp...]
>
>


Malcolm

7/26/2009 6:20:00 AM

0


In article <g4bn65lh63v32gd3optf1l13g3jth3fnae@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>:
>:In article <9lnm65dict6crqe0v9mkl22kg8htjr9258@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>:>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:>
>:>:
>:>:In article <41fm65ddt5fg911lqmjcuh9gj93tmc9bsj@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
>:>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>:>:>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:>:>
>:>:>:
>:>:>:In article <50pk65dhha7jhg1iach151gs6faobfg3j2@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
>:>:>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>:>:>:>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>:In article <c9dj65hl016ridikomj1asmbvumpj8tc7k@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
>:>:>:>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:>Why, of course not. I mean, it's not like animals have brains,
>:>:>:>:>emotions, or anything like that, right?
>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>:But you mustn't attribute human brains, emotions or anything like that,
>:>:>:>:right?
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>No, but it's not all 'instinct' like some want to claim, either.
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:
>:>:>:Some may want to claim that. I haven't. Learning is as important as
>:>:>:instinct in many cases.
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>But you still seem insistent on the idea that they don't have
>:>:>'emotions', 'character traits', or any of that. Why, they never do
>:>:>anything just because they enjoy it...
>:>:>
>:>:
>:>:I go on the evidence. If you know better, produce it.
>:>:
>:>
>:>You've not produced your 'evidence'.
>:>
>:>There's no 'evidence' that people have any of those things, either. Do
>:>you assert that they do not until someone provided you with concrete
>:>proof?
>:>
>:
>:I'm a scientist. I work with facts and proof. You clearly don't.
>:
>
>Evasion and attempted insult noted.
>
It wasn't any kind of an insult, attempted or otherwise. It was a
statement about your indulgence in opinion not fact.

>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:>I live out here where we've got bears, lynxes, wolves, coyotes,
>:>:>:>:>mountain lions, etc.
>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>:Good for you. Perhaps those wild animals are wary of humans because they
>:>:>:>:have been hunted for too long.
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>Nope. We're not allowed to hunt them or even shoot at them if they
>:>:>:>come into town. There was a big furor here over a mountain lion that
>:>:>:>came down after some fires and staked out a local school as its new
>:>:>:>territory being shot by authorities.
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:No, I didn't say you still hunted them, but they were hunted over a very
>:>:>:long period, were they not?
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>People haven't lived out here for "a very long period". Besides
>:>:>which, all those animals are long dead. Are you proposing 'ancestral
>:>:>memory' now?
>:>:>
>:>:
>:>:I've no idea what you mean by "ancestral memory" in this context. What
>:>:does happen is that behavioural traits are passed down through the
>:>:generations. See my earlier remark about "learning".
>:>:
>:>
>:>But they wear back off, too, unless you postulate that the current
>:>generation can somehow 'remember' and react to experiences they've
>:>never had, but that their great great great great great grandparents
>:>might have had.
>:>
>:
>:You really don't know what you are talking about, do you? Yet that
>:doesn't stop you, does it? That's been apparent in thread after thread
>:in this ng.
>:
>
>Lack of content noted.
>
Have you been reading your own posts, then?

>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:>Because you're apparently too stupid to get it otherwise.
>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>:And now ad hominem remarks. Clearly you are not capable of carrying on a
>:>:>:>:discussion and making your points without indulging in them. But then
>:>:>:>:that's your style here, isn't it? In thread after thread, you put
>:>:>:>:forward your views and then as soon as someone with a better grasp of
>:>:>:>:the subject puts forward an alternative view, you start throwing your
>:>:>:>:toys out of the pram.
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>Again, you started it. If you don't like it, don't do it. If you do
>:>:>:>like it, you'll likely be killfiled shortly, as folks who enjoy that
>:>:>:>sort of thing are generally too fuckwitted to be worth bothering with
>:>:>:>except to poke occasionally.
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:
>:>:>:I did not start ad hominem remarks. You did as you do in thread after
>:>:>:thread.
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>Generally because one finds insulting snots in thread after thread and
>:>:>I give them what they merit.
>:>:>
>:>:Yes, like this:
>:>:
>:>:"Poor stupid little git. This is why I said STUPID and ignorant. The
>:>:single thing that's even close to being right (although it's not) in the
>:>:paragraph and THAT is the one you fixate on.
>:>:Ignorance is correctable. Stupidity is not and will prevent you from
>:>:ever correcting the ignorance.
>:>:Run along now. You're obviously too stupid to seriously bother with."
>:>:
>:>:"See what I mean about never learning anything from you? It's because
>:>:you're such a bloody liar that nothing you says can be given any
>:>:credence."
>:>:
>:>:"You just get stupider and stupider and stupider. You're like the
>:>:energizer bunny of dumb."
>:>:
>:>:"But then, we understand that. It's just that you're SO bloody thick is
>:>:all.."
>:>:
>:>:"You just never get any brighter, do you?"
>:>:
>:>:"The Phlatulant Pillock thinks there is 'Truth' (with a capital 'T').
>:>:I'll stick with the facts and leave 'Truth' to boronic idiotlogues like
>:>:him, thanks... "
>:>:
>:>
>:>Now list the folks those were in reply to and you'll understand
>:>PRECISELY what I said, above.
>:>
>:I merely post these recent messages of yours to demonstrate your style
>:of "discussion".
>:
>
>What the other party is doing matters, Malcolm. You merely dredge up
>examples of people getting what they give as misdirection.
>
I didn't "dredge" anything up. I merely looked at a handful of your most
recent posts. It doesn't seem to matter with you what "the other party"
is doing. Your style remains the same.

>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:>Then they're hardly "doing it for food", are they?
>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>:Usually. There are circumstances where adults do it to teach their
>:>:>:>:young. There are also a great many animals and birds which cache food to
>:>:>:>:consume later. Examples of killing and then abandoning are rare.
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>Name a feral animal species (what we're talking about here) that does
>:>:>:>that.
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:
>:>:>:Mink have been reported as doing so, but not regularly.
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>I don't believe I've ever heard of the vast herds of feral mink going
>:>:>about attacking people and storing them up for later.
>:>:>
>:>:
>:>:No, you wouldn't have.
>:>:
>:>
>:>And that would be because such don't exist. I'll leave the delusions
>:>to others, thanks.
>:>
>:
>:No-one said they did exist. Certainly I didn't.
>:
>
>Evasion noted.
>
What? I'm not evading anything. I'm trying to inform you about animal
behaviour, something you are clearly not fully informed about.

>:>:>:>:>DOH!
>:>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>:You do have a *big* problem, don't you, with anyone who disagrees with
>:>:>:>:you.
>:>:>:>:
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>Not really. I do have a big problem with people who think their
>:>:>:>assertions count as evidence.
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:
>:>:>:So what have you been doing other than making assertions and failing to
>:>:>:back them up with evidence?
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>You're the one claiming to know far more than I. Little evidence of
>:>:>it so far, I must say. See your very next remark, below.
>:>:>
>:>:It has become increasingly obvious, the more you post, that I know far
>:>:more on this subject than you do. Live with it and learn.
>:>:
>:>
>:>It has become increasingly obvious, the more you post, that I know far
>:>more on this subject than you do. Live with it and learn.
>:>
>:
>:Except that you don't, and parroting my words won't change that.
>:
>
>Except I do, and your assertions of your opinion won't change that.
>
My case rests.

>:>Are you convinced now? So you see how 'convincing' your remark is.
>:>
>:
>:I couldn't care less whether or not you find it convincing. Your
>:opinions are of little interest.
>:
>
>Yet here you are, fuming and stewing.
>
I'm doing neither. I'm sitting here with a bemused smile on my face
wondering how why you're so insecure.

>:>:>:>:Try taking into account that your knowledge is not necessarily superior
>:>:>:>:to other people's. In this particular case, it is definitely inferior.
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:>I'd suggest you go read what you just wrote and take it to heart.
>:>:>:>
>:>:>:I have read what I wrote. I have also read what you wrote. I have
>:>:>:provided facts and mentioned my personal observations of a wide range of
>:>:>:species in many different countries.
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>Gee, me too.
>:>:>
>:>:
>:>:But strangely reluctant to produce some actual evidence based on
>:>:personal experience. More bullshitting, perhaps?
>:>:
>:>
>:>You've never done. Why should I?
>:>
>:
>:I listed groups of animals to back up my correction of your sweeping
>:statement.
>:
>
>In other words, you tried to obscure the issue.
>
If that's how you interpreted what I wrote, then it appears that you
have a major problem with comprehension. And, before you say it, that is
not an insult, it is how I see your lack of understanding of the written
word. I've seen it in other threads, too.

>:>:>:
>:>:>:I am a biologist who has studied
>:>:>:mammals and birds for many years. I also try and keep abreast of the
>:>:>:literature on animal behaviour.
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>I, on the other hand, just stayed alive around them.
>:>:>
>:>:
>:>:But obviously didn't acquire any knowledge of animal behaviour.
>:>:
>:>
>:>Certainly enough to not get eaten. Were you in danger of being
>:>devoured by all those books, were you?
>:>
>:
>:Meaningless remark.
>:
>
>Lack of content noted.
>
A comment telling someone they've posted a meaningless remark very
obviously contains content. See above about comprehension.


>:>:>:
>:>:>:Readers can determine whether this
>:>:>:counts for anything against unsubstantiated comments about what you
>:>:>:believe to be differences between wild and feral animals using
>:>:>:anthropomorphic comparisons.
>:>:>:
>:>:>
>:>:>I'm not using 'anthropomorphic comparisons'. That's just your claim
>:>:>of what I'm doing. It's a pure bullshit debating tactic on your part.
>:>:>
>:>:You have more than once mentioned animals doing things for "sport", for
>:>:"fun" and other decidedly anthropomorphic comparisons.
>:>
>:>So your claim is that animals don't feel those sorts of things in
>:>their own ways?
>:>
>:That's a meaningless question. Start by defining "in their own ways".
>:
>
>Evasion noted.
>
Needle stuck?

>:>That seems to bring us back to my earlier remark that you seem to have
>:>some belief that humans are somehow unique in these regards.
>:>
>:>We're animals just like them...
>:>
>:Well, you maybe, but the rest of the human race while indeed animals
>:have major differences from the rest of the animal kingdom.
>:
>
>Oh? And just what are those? Remember, SCIENTIFIC PROOF is required.
>
Of course it is. I suggest you go and look for it. I'm bored with your
inability to discuss a matter rationally without descending into your
usual insult mode. Reading other threads makes it clear that you are not
open to being informed on matters about which you have demonstrated a
lack of knowledge.

--
Malcolm

La N

7/26/2009 6:30:00 AM

0


"Malcolm" <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Q6sF7HnKM$aKFwya@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article <n0bn65t8933q2hn0t4o9ofn1hhkje6b7r0@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
> <fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Do you truly not know what 'troll' means on Usenet? It doesn't just
>>mean someone you dislike, you know...
>>
> I do know. You have, and not for the first time, misunderstood the written
> word.
>

I think by now you have recognized that F*** is indeed a troll. Now
howzabout spending time answering some of my bona fide biology fans
questions ... :)

My query to you about the psychobiology of abandoned by children allegedly
raised in the wild was "en buena onda" ( in good faith) WRT the
nature/nurture question. Please do pay attention to us bona fides .. ;)

btw, many years ago , my own self ,I took college (animal) biology courses.
I found it very troubling to particularly dissect the muscles and tendons of
deceased cats and correlate them to their human counterparts. My mother was
very patient and understanding in allowing me to keep my homework in her
freezer. I found, as an animal lover, that black humour was helpful when
slicing the abdomens of huge frogs and applying electrodes to still beating
hearts.

- nilita, once again tapping feet .....


Fred J. McCall

7/26/2009 7:37:00 AM

0

Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:

:
:In article <g4bn65lh63v32gd3optf1l13g3jth3fnae@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
:>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:>
:>:
:>:In article <9lnm65dict6crqe0v9mkl22kg8htjr9258@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
:>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
:>:>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:>:>
:>:>:
:>:>:In article <41fm65ddt5fg911lqmjcuh9gj93tmc9bsj@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
:>:>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
:>:>:>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:In article <50pk65dhha7jhg1iach151gs6faobfg3j2@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
:>:>:>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
:>:>:>:>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>:In article <c9dj65hl016ridikomj1asmbvumpj8tc7k@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
:>:>:>:>:<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:>Why, of course not. I mean, it's not like animals have brains,
:>:>:>:>:>emotions, or anything like that, right?
:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>:But you mustn't attribute human brains, emotions or anything like that,
:>:>:>:>:right?
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>No, but it's not all 'instinct' like some want to claim, either.
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:Some may want to claim that. I haven't. Learning is as important as
:>:>:>:instinct in many cases.
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>But you still seem insistent on the idea that they don't have
:>:>:>'emotions', 'character traits', or any of that. Why, they never do
:>:>:>anything just because they enjoy it...
:>:>:>
:>:>:
:>:>:I go on the evidence. If you know better, produce it.
:>:>:
:>:>
:>:>You've not produced your 'evidence'.
:>:>
:>:>There's no 'evidence' that people have any of those things, either. Do
:>:>you assert that they do not until someone provided you with concrete
:>:>proof?
:>:>
:>:
:>:I'm a scientist. I work with facts and proof. You clearly don't.
:>:
:>
:>Evasion and attempted insult noted.
:>
:
:It wasn't any kind of an insult, attempted or otherwise. It was a
:statement about your indulgence in opinion not fact.
:

And so we see the problem with so many of your sort. When someone
else says it it's an insult. When you say it, it's a statement of
fact.

Yeah, sure...

:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:>I live out here where we've got bears, lynxes, wolves, coyotes,
:>:>:>:>:>mountain lions, etc.
:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>:Good for you. Perhaps those wild animals are wary of humans because they
:>:>:>:>:have been hunted for too long.
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>Nope. We're not allowed to hunt them or even shoot at them if they
:>:>:>:>come into town. There was a big furor here over a mountain lion that
:>:>:>:>came down after some fires and staked out a local school as its new
:>:>:>:>territory being shot by authorities.
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:No, I didn't say you still hunted them, but they were hunted over a very
:>:>:>:long period, were they not?
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>People haven't lived out here for "a very long period". Besides
:>:>:>which, all those animals are long dead. Are you proposing 'ancestral
:>:>:>memory' now?
:>:>:>
:>:>:
:>:>:I've no idea what you mean by "ancestral memory" in this context. What
:>:>:does happen is that behavioural traits are passed down through the
:>:>:generations. See my earlier remark about "learning".
:>:>:
:>:>
:>:>But they wear back off, too, unless you postulate that the current
:>:>generation can somehow 'remember' and react to experiences they've
:>:>never had, but that their great great great great great grandparents
:>:>might have had.
:>:>
:>:
:>:You really don't know what you are talking about, do you? Yet that
:>:doesn't stop you, does it? That's been apparent in thread after thread
:>:in this ng.
:>:
:>
:>Lack of content noted.
:>
:Have you been reading your own posts, then?
:

<yawn>

:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:>Because you're apparently too stupid to get it otherwise.
:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>:And now ad hominem remarks. Clearly you are not capable of carrying on a
:>:>:>:>:discussion and making your points without indulging in them. But then
:>:>:>:>:that's your style here, isn't it? In thread after thread, you put
:>:>:>:>:forward your views and then as soon as someone with a better grasp of
:>:>:>:>:the subject puts forward an alternative view, you start throwing your
:>:>:>:>:toys out of the pram.
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>Again, you started it. If you don't like it, don't do it. If you do
:>:>:>:>like it, you'll likely be killfiled shortly, as folks who enjoy that
:>:>:>:>sort of thing are generally too fuckwitted to be worth bothering with
:>:>:>:>except to poke occasionally.
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:I did not start ad hominem remarks. You did as you do in thread after
:>:>:>:thread.
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>Generally because one finds insulting snots in thread after thread and
:>:>:>I give them what they merit.
:>:>:>
:>:>:Yes, like this:
:>:>:
:>:>:"Poor stupid little git. This is why I said STUPID and ignorant. The
:>:>:single thing that's even close to being right (although it's not) in the
:>:>:paragraph and THAT is the one you fixate on.
:>:>:Ignorance is correctable. Stupidity is not and will prevent you from
:>:>:ever correcting the ignorance.
:>:>:Run along now. You're obviously too stupid to seriously bother with."
:>:>:
:>:>:"See what I mean about never learning anything from you? It's because
:>:>:you're such a bloody liar that nothing you says can be given any
:>:>:credence."
:>:>:
:>:>:"You just get stupider and stupider and stupider. You're like the
:>:>:energizer bunny of dumb."
:>:>:
:>:>:"But then, we understand that. It's just that you're SO bloody thick is
:>:>:all.."
:>:>:
:>:>:"You just never get any brighter, do you?"
:>:>:
:>:>:"The Phlatulant Pillock thinks there is 'Truth' (with a capital 'T').
:>:>:I'll stick with the facts and leave 'Truth' to boronic idiotlogues like
:>:>:him, thanks... "
:>:>:
:>:>
:>:>Now list the folks those were in reply to and you'll understand
:>:>PRECISELY what I said, above.
:>:>
:>:I merely post these recent messages of yours to demonstrate your style
:>:of "discussion".
:>:
:>
:>What the other party is doing matters, Malcolm. You merely dredge up
:>examples of people getting what they give as misdirection.
:>
:I didn't "dredge" anything up. I merely looked at a handful of your most
:recent posts.
:

And did you happen to peruse just what those people have said to me?
No, I didn't think so.

:
:It doesn't seem to matter with you what "the other party"
:is doing. Your style remains the same.
:

Either your amazingly dense or you're an outright liar.

:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:>Then they're hardly "doing it for food", are they?
:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>:Usually. There are circumstances where adults do it to teach their
:>:>:>:>:young. There are also a great many animals and birds which cache food to
:>:>:>:>:consume later. Examples of killing and then abandoning are rare.
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>Name a feral animal species (what we're talking about here) that does
:>:>:>:>that.
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:Mink have been reported as doing so, but not regularly.
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>I don't believe I've ever heard of the vast herds of feral mink going
:>:>:>about attacking people and storing them up for later.
:>:>:>
:>:>:
:>:>:No, you wouldn't have.
:>:>:
:>:>
:>:>And that would be because such don't exist. I'll leave the delusions
:>:>to others, thanks.
:>:>
:>:
:>:No-one said they did exist. Certainly I didn't.
:>:
:>
:>Evasion noted.
:>
:
:What? I'm not evading anything. I'm trying to inform you about animal
:behaviour, something you are clearly not fully informed about.
:

More than you, it seems.

:>:>:>:>:>DOH!
:>:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>:You do have a *big* problem, don't you, with anyone who disagrees with
:>:>:>:>:you.
:>:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>Not really. I do have a big problem with people who think their
:>:>:>:>assertions count as evidence.
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:So what have you been doing other than making assertions and failing to
:>:>:>:back them up with evidence?
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>You're the one claiming to know far more than I. Little evidence of
:>:>:>it so far, I must say. See your very next remark, below.
:>:>:>
:>:>:It has become increasingly obvious, the more you post, that I know far
:>:>:more on this subject than you do. Live with it and learn.
:>:>:
:>:>
:>:>It has become increasingly obvious, the more you post, that I know far
:>:>more on this subject than you do. Live with it and learn.
:>:>
:>:
:>:Except that you don't, and parroting my words won't change that.
:>:
:>
:>Except I do, and your assertions of your opinion won't change that.
:>
:My case rests.
:
:>:>Are you convinced now? So you see how 'convincing' your remark is.
:>:>
:>:
:>:I couldn't care less whether or not you find it convincing. Your
:>:opinions are of little interest.
:>:
:>
:>Yet here you are, fuming and stewing.
:>
:
:I'm doing neither. I'm sitting here with a bemused smile on my face
:wondering how why you're so insecure.
:

<yawn>

Still trying to pass Stupid Usenet Tricks 101, are you?

:>:>:>:>:Try taking into account that your knowledge is not necessarily superior
:>:>:>:>:to other people's. In this particular case, it is definitely inferior.
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:>I'd suggest you go read what you just wrote and take it to heart.
:>:>:>:>
:>:>:>:I have read what I wrote. I have also read what you wrote. I have
:>:>:>:provided facts and mentioned my personal observations of a wide range of
:>:>:>:species in many different countries.
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>Gee, me too.
:>:>:>
:>:>:
:>:>:But strangely reluctant to produce some actual evidence based on
:>:>:personal experience. More bullshitting, perhaps?
:>:>:
:>:>
:>:>You've never done. Why should I?
:>:>
:>:
:>:I listed groups of animals to back up my correction of your sweeping
:>:statement.
:>:
:>
:>In other words, you tried to obscure the issue.
:>
:
:If that's how you interpreted what I wrote, then it appears that you
:have a major problem with comprehension.
:

Or perhaps you have a major problem with expression. But no, it can't
be YOU, can it?

:
:And, before you say it, that is
:not an insult, it is how I see your lack of understanding of the written
:word. I've seen it in other threads, too.
:

As I said earlier. When YOU do it, it's "not an insult". When I do
it, it is.

You get what you give, regardless of what YOU call what you're doing.
And it really doesn't matter if you're so self-deluded that you
actually believe what you're saying doesn't constitute an 'insult' or
if you're just playing debating games and lying.

:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:I am a biologist who has studied
:>:>:>:mammals and birds for many years. I also try and keep abreast of the
:>:>:>:literature on animal behaviour.
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>I, on the other hand, just stayed alive around them.
:>:>:>
:>:>:
:>:>:But obviously didn't acquire any knowledge of animal behaviour.
:>:>:
:>:>
:>:>Certainly enough to not get eaten. Were you in danger of being
:>:>devoured by all those books, were you?
:>:>
:>:
:>:Meaningless remark.
:>:
:>
:>Lack of content noted.
:>
:
:A comment telling someone they've posted a meaningless remark very
:obviously contains content. See above about comprehension.
:

Lack of content noted.

:
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>:Readers can determine whether this
:>:>:>:counts for anything against unsubstantiated comments about what you
:>:>:>:believe to be differences between wild and feral animals using
:>:>:>:anthropomorphic comparisons.
:>:>:>:
:>:>:>
:>:>:>I'm not using 'anthropomorphic comparisons'. That's just your claim
:>:>:>of what I'm doing. It's a pure bullshit debating tactic on your part.
:>:>:>
:>:>:You have more than once mentioned animals doing things for "sport", for
:>:>:"fun" and other decidedly anthropomorphic comparisons.
:>:>
:>:>So your claim is that animals don't feel those sorts of things in
:>:>their own ways?
:>:>
:>:That's a meaningless question. Start by defining "in their own ways".
:>:
:>
:>Evasion noted.
:>
:
:Needle stuck?
:

Like you, I call them like I see them. Stop repeating Stupid Usenet
Tricks 101 tactics and I'll stop pointing out that you're doing so.

:>:>That seems to bring us back to my earlier remark that you seem to have
:>:>some belief that humans are somehow unique in these regards.
:>:>
:>:>We're animals just like them...
:>:>
:>:Well, you maybe, but the rest of the human race while indeed animals
:>:have major differences from the rest of the animal kingdom.
:>:
:>
:>Oh? And just what are those? Remember, SCIENTIFIC PROOF is required.
:>
:
:Of course it is. I suggest you go and look for it.
:

Your inability to support your repeated 'scientific' claims is noted.

:
:I'm bored with your
:inability to discuss a matter rationally without descending into your
:usual insult mode.
:

You get what you give, Malcolm. If you don't like what you get, start
looking to yourself for the cause.

:
:Reading other threads makes it clear that you are not
:open to being informed on matters about which you have demonstrated a
:lack of knowledge.
:

No, I'm just not particularly open to accepting your unsupported
assertions as God's revealed truth. And it's obvious that you're not
open to anyone disagreeing with your unsupported assertions.

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

Fred J. McCall

7/26/2009 7:46:00 AM

0

"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:

:
:"Malcolm" <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
:news:Q6sF7HnKM$aKFwya@indaal.demon.co.uk...
:>
:> In article <n0bn65t8933q2hn0t4o9ofn1hhkje6b7r0@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
:> <fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
:>>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:>>
: >>
:>>Do you truly not know what 'troll' means on Usenet? It doesn't just
:>>mean someone you dislike, you know...
:>>
:> I do know. You have, and not for the first time, misunderstood the written
:> word.
:>
:
:I think by now you have recognized that F*** is indeed a troll. Now
:howzabout spending time answering some of my bona fide biology fans
:questions ... :)
:

And here she is again, just like I predicted....

Still ugly to the bone...

--
"I see her as one great stampede of lips directed at the
nearest derriere."
-- Noel Coward

Malcolm

7/26/2009 9:55:00 AM

0


In article <fJSam.36566$Db2.4282@edtnps83>, La N
<nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes
>
>"Malcolm" <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:Q6sF7HnKM$aKFwya@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> In article <n0bn65t8933q2hn0t4o9ofn1hhkje6b7r0@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
>> <fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>>>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
> >>
>>>Do you truly not know what 'troll' means on Usenet? It doesn't just
>>>mean someone you dislike, you know...
>>>
>> I do know. You have, and not for the first time, misunderstood the written
>> word.
>>
>
>I think by now you have recognized that F*** is indeed a troll.

Yes, I know and I've known it for a long time. But every so often, it's
good to tweak trolls' tails and watch them try and squirm out of the
hole they've dug for themselves. Fred is still in his :-)

> Now
>howzabout spending time answering some of my bona fide biology fans
>questions ... :)
>
>My query to you about the psychobiology of abandoned by children allegedly
>raised in the wild was "en buena onda" ( in good faith) WRT the
>nature/nurture question. Please do pay attention to us bona fides .. ;)
>
Indeed I will, and apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

My own belief is that the animals raising children are relying entirely
on instinct. There are plenty of examples of species of animals or birds
rearing the young of other species of animals or birds. It is almost
always a matter of chance whether they are accepted by the foster parent
- having their own young at the same stage of growth, having just lost a
young and therefore "adopting" another young not its own, being "adopted
by" a straying or orphan young and not rejecting it, etc.

I'm not a child behaviourist and can't answer your question about long
term studies on feral children.

>btw, many years ago , my own self ,I took college (animal) biology courses.
>I found it very troubling to particularly dissect the muscles and tendons of
>deceased cats and correlate them to their human counterparts. My mother was
>very patient and understanding in allowing me to keep my homework in her
>freezer. I found, as an animal lover, that black humour was helpful when
>slicing the abdomens of huge frogs and applying electrodes to still beating
>hearts.
>
>- nilita, once again tapping feet .....

Is that in time to the frogs?

--
Malcolm

Malcolm

7/26/2009 9:56:00 AM

0


In article <ha2o65p6gkflt5si2gc0iqj3hfpgfeo3nq@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
<fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>:
>:"Malcolm" <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>:news:Q6sF7HnKM$aKFwya@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>:>
>:> In article <n0bn65t8933q2hn0t4o9ofn1hhkje6b7r0@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
>:> <fjmccall@gmail.com> writes
>:>>Malcolm <Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:>>
>: >>
>:>>Do you truly not know what 'troll' means on Usenet? It doesn't just
>:>>mean someone you dislike, you know...
>:>>
>:> I do know. You have, and not for the first time, misunderstood the written
>:> word.
>:>
>:
>:I think by now you have recognized that F*** is indeed a troll. Now
>:howzabout spending time answering some of my bona fide biology fans
>:questions ... :)
>:
>
>And here she is again, just like I predicted....
>
>Still ugly to the bone...
>
Your response appears to be entirely predictable based on your past
history of posting - aggressive, intolerant and rude.

--
Malcolm