microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.webservices

yhhuang

7/14/2003 5:59:00 AM

Hello Mike,

You could refer to one MSDN artilce named ".NET Data Access Architecture Guide" to select one transactions model for
your application. If the machines are all in LAN and there is no Internet clients, you could select remoting for better
performence.

Thanks.

Best regards,
yhhuang
VS.NET, Visual C++
Microsoft

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Got .Net? http://www.got...
--------------------
!From: "Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com>
!References: <udCo#MbNDHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl> <ux1aiYbNDHA.1564@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl> <#
$nNWydNDHA.2092@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl> <nxkdLcjNDHA.2584@cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl> <eS42yumNDHA.2308
@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl> <#t86BEoNDHA.1612@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl> <Of0BMjoNDHA.2768
@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <Ol7IxmqNDHA.3144@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <ekBOFGzNDHA.388
@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl> <elyhDh4NDHA.2128@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl> <OjtkVDaODHA.3236
@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> <#EmtLDcODHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> <er3eLOcODHA.1712
@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl> <#RSEAjcODHA.1884@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>
!Subject: Re: Web Services vs. Remoting
!Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:57:46 -0700
!Lines: 602
!X-Priority: 3
!X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
!X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
!X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
!Message-ID: <eM8LJ5zRDHA.1920@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>
!Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.webservices
!NNTP-Posting-Host: adsl-64-175-22-129.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net 64.175.22.129
!Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl
!Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.webservices:18235
!X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.webservices
!
!I guess you ran out of steam, Marina. Thanks anyway.
!
!"Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com> wrote in message
!news:%23RSEAjcODHA.1884@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
!> Marina,
!>
!> I am sorry, I must have really dropped the ball on explaining what I want
!to
!> do.
!>
!> Machine A has a transaction required method that calls a web service on
!> Machine B.
!> Machine A checks the result code from the web service on Machine B.
!> Machine A inserts the result code on the database on Machine A.
!> Machine A checks the result code from that operation.
!> Machine A -> if both transactions are good, calls SetComplete to commit
!> transactions on both machines. If either of the transactions fail, calls
!> SetAbort to rollback transactions on both machines.
!>
!> Is this scenario a candidate for a web service or do I need remoting?
!>
!> Thanks.
!>
!> Mike
!>
!> "Marina" <zlatkinam@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
!> news:er3eLOcODHA.1712@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
!> > I think it is the same problem as webservices. If you are calling 2
!> > different remoting components, that are sitting on 2 different machines,
!I
!> > don't know how you would enlist them both in the same transaction.
!> >
!> > In this regard I think remoting and web services are the same. It is
!the
!> > other, non-transaction related features that may be the deciding factor.
!> But
!> > I don't think either can accomplish what you are looking for - which is
!to
!> > be able to execute code on machines A and B from machine C, and to have
!A
!> > and B participate in a transaction created by C (the caller). At least
!if
!> > this is possible, I am not someone who knows how to do it.
!> >
!> > "Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com> wrote in message
!> > news:%23EmtLDcODHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
!> > > Marina,
!> > >
!> > > That is right, it goes back to what we have been talking about, and
!that
!> > is
!> > > our discussion about the best mechanism to participate in a two phase
!> > > commit - web services or remoting. In further reading I understand
!now
!> > that
!> > > a web service can only either not participate in a transaction, or
!start
!> a
!> > > new transaction - it cannot participate in an existing transaction.
!So
!> I
!> > > think that effectively rules out web services participating in a two
!> phase
!> > > commit.
!> > >
!> > > What do you think about remoting? Can one use remoting for a two
!phase
!> > > commit?
!> > >
!> > > Thanks.
!> > >
!> > > Mike
!> > >
!> > > "Marina" <zlatkinam@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
!> > > news:OjtkVDaODHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
!> > > > I think in this scenario you need web services, because of the
!nature
!> of
!> > > > your setup. And each web service will deal with the data on the
!> machine
!> > it
!> > > > is sitting on?
!> > > >
!> > > > Bit, I do not see how you can call 2 different web services, and
!> ensure
!> > a
!> > > > two phase commit.
!> > > >
!> > > > If this is possible, it is beyond what I know.
!> > > >
!> > > > "Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com> wrote in message
!> > > > news:elyhDh4NDHA.2128@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > The remote servers are out on the internet and scattered across
!the
!> > > > country
!> > > > > and will not be members of the domain but will stay stand alone
!> > servers.
!> > > > > So, your question is a good one, and it cuts to the heart of our
!> > network
!> > > > > design.
!> > > > >
!> > > > > We could have made them member servers and created a WAN, thereby
!> > > > connecting
!> > > > > to the database directly as you point out. But the company we are
!> > doing
!> > > > > this project for has very limited network administrative resources
!> and
!> > > > this
!> > > > > would add a layer of complexity they would not want to handle, or
!> pay
!> > > for
!> > > > > someone to handle for them.
!> > > > >
!> > > > > Our thinking is that member servers will be simpler for them to
!> > > maintain.
!> > > > > It will be more complex for us to code the push of data from the
!> home
!> > > > server
!> > > > > to the remote servers, but it will work out better for the client
!to
!> > > > > maintain a very simple environment.
!> > > > >
!> > > > > I think it will be easy to pull detail data from the remote
!> servers,
!> > > and
!> > > > a
!> > > > > little more complex to insert data (like how do I know it was
!> > > > successful?).
!> > > > > I think the greater challenge will be the one two-phase commit
!call
!> we
!> > > > will
!> > > > > have. So, what do you think? I can do this with web services,
!> right?
!> > > Or
!> > > > > no?
!> > > > >
!> > > > > Thanks.
!> > > > >
!> > > > > "Marina" <zlatkinam@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
!> > > > > news:ekBOFGzNDHA.388@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > Are you talking about calling a web service on the machine that
!> has
!> > > > > database
!> > > > > > #1? Can you just connect to the database directly?
!> > > > > >
!> > > > > > What I'm saying is, do you even need any remote calls. Can you
!> just
!> > > > > insert
!> > > > > > data into both databases, from the same machine?
!> > > > > >
!> > > > > > "Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com> wrote in message
!> > > > > > news:Ol7IxmqNDHA.3144@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > > Marina,
!> > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > Thanks for your really great answer.
!> > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > What I want to do is to insert a row in a table on a remote
!> > machine,
!> > > > get
!> > > > > > an
!> > > > > > > ID back and insert that ID into another database. Both
!inserts
!> > must
!> > > > be
!> > > > > > > successful. This is the basic unit of work and it is a
!complete
!> > > > > > transaction.
!> > > > > > > The call to the remote database might have 12 parameters
!> (typical
!> > > > > personal
!> > > > > > > demographic data stuff for users), and I will just get an ID
!> back.
!> > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > Can I do this with web services?
!> > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > Thanks again for your perspective.
!> > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > "Marina" <zlatkinam@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
!> > > > > > > news:Of0BMjoNDHA.2768@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > > > Ok Mike,
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > First of all, forget about COM+ as a decision factor for
!> > remoting
!> > > > and
!> > > > > > web
!> > > > > > > > services. This is not related at all. COM+ is just an
!> > > environment
!> > > > > that
!> > > > > > > > provides you with built in distributed transactions. It can
!be
!> > > used
!> > > > > from
!> > > > > > > > anywhere, with the same result. For the sake of this
!> > discussion,
!> > > > > > > > distributed transactions, COM+ - this is all irrelevant.
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > Your real question is: I have a multi-tier application,
!should
!> I
!> > > use
!> > > > > > > > remoting or web services to make the call to the other
!machine
!> > so
!> > > it
!> > > > > can
!> > > > > > > > execute some code for me?
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > Now, in any case, the remote call (whether using remoting or
!> web
!> > > > > > services)
!> > > > > > > > is going to instantiate your COM+ class. It is then going
!to
!> > make
!> > > a
!> > > > > > call
!> > > > > > > to
!> > > > > > > > one or more methods of this class. That is probably about
!it.
!> > > Since
!> > > > > > you,
!> > > > > > > > sitting on another machine can't get to a DLL directly, you
!> need
!> > > > > > something
!> > > > > > > > else to do it for you. Whether this DLL ahppens to live in
!> > COM+,
!> > > or
!> > > > > > what
!> > > > > > > it
!> > > > > > > > does is irrelevant, works the same no matter what.
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > So both remoting and web services are really the same thing
!:
!> > each
!> > > > on
!> > > > > is
!> > > > > > > > going to be a way for you to create your COM+ object, and
!call
!> > > > > method(s)
!> > > > > > > on
!> > > > > > > > it.
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > The question is: which way is the better way to do this COM+
!> > call.
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > Web services:
!> > > > > > > > 1) use XML and HTTP to make the remote call - can be used by
!a
!> > > > program
!> > > > > > > > written in any language or technology (Java, etc)
!> > > > > > > > 2) slightly slower then remoting, because of the use of HTTP
!> > > > > > > > 3) easiest to code
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > remoting
!> > > > > > > > 1) comes in many flavors: binary vs soap, tcp vs http
!> > > > > > > > 2) faster then web services
!> > > > > > > > 3) can be used ONLY by a .NET client. So the caller has to
!> be
!> > > > > written
!> > > > > > in
!> > > > > > > > .NET
!> > > > > > > > 4) more work then web services to get going
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > I hope this is more helpful. If you have specific questions,
!> > > please
!> > > > > ask.
!> > > > > > I
!> > > > > > > > don't know too many other ways to explain this.
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > Microsoft as well as other sites have tons of information
!> about
!> > > this
!> > > > > > kind
!> > > > > > > of
!> > > > > > > > thing as well.
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > Good luck.
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > "Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com> wrote in message
!> > > > > > > > news:%23t86BEoNDHA.1612@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > > > > Well, now that I have totally embarrassed my self with my
!> poor
!> > > > > > manners,
!> > > > > > > > > please accept my apologies for my cross post.
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > As for Marina, I think it is not so much of not wanting to
!> > > accept
!> > > > > her
!> > > > > > > > answer
!> > > > > > > > > as much as she is much smarter than me, and I could not
!> > > understand
!> > > > > her
!> > > > > > > > > points. As I am a beginner in remoting and web services,
!I
!> am
!> > > > > pretty
!> > > > > > > far
!> > > > > > > > > down in the weeds so to speak, and was not sure how to
!> express
!> > > my
!> > > > > > > question
!> > > > > > > > > productively.
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > Marina - maybe if I rephrase my original question this
!way:
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > I am trying to come to a conclusion about using a web
!> service
!> > or
!> > > > > > > remoting
!> > > > > > > > > that will ultimately require a two phase commit. I know
!> that
!> > I
!> > > > will
!> > > > > > > have
!> > > > > > > > to
!> > > > > > > > > use COM+ for this operation, and I am not sure what
!> questions
!> > to
!> > > > ask
!> > > > > > > > myself
!> > > > > > > > > or how to evaluate web services or remoting to the point
!> that
!> > I
!> > > > can
!> > > > > > make
!> > > > > > > a
!> > > > > > > > > decision about which to use in this situation. Possibly
!> > either
!> > > > web
!> > > > > > > > services
!> > > > > > > > > or remoting can handle COM+ and a two phase commit equally
!> > well.
!> > > > If
!> > > > > > > that
!> > > > > > > > is
!> > > > > > > > > the case, what should I be looking at, what questions
!should
!> I
!> > > be
!> > > > > > asking
!> > > > > > > > > myself to help make a decision into what I should be
!> investing
!> > > my
!> > > > > time
!> > > > > > > > with?
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > I am reading as much as I can about both, and I have to
!make
!> a
!> > > > > > decision
!> > > > > > > to
!> > > > > > > > > use one in this instance, and I want to make the right
!> choice.
!> > > So
!> > > > > if
!> > > > > > > > there
!> > > > > > > > > is any general wisdom you have about web services or
!> remoting
!> > > that
!> > > > > > could
!> > > > > > > > > point me in the right direction, it would be very helpful.
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > Thanks.
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > "Marina" <zlatkinam@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
!> > > > > > > > > news:eS42yumNDHA.2308@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > > > > > Not only was this a multi-post, but it was a multi-post
!to
!> > the
!> > > > > same
!> > > > > > > > exact
!> > > > > > > > > > newsgroup, which is that much worse.
!> > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > For some reason Mike doesn't want to accept my answer,
!and
!> I
!> > > > don't
!> > > > > > > > really
!> > > > > > > > > > see any reason for that.
!> > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > But anyway...
!> > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > "Yan-Hong Huang[MSFT]" <yhhuang@online.microsoft.com>
!> wrote
!> > in
!> > > > > > message
!> > > > > > > > > > news:nxkdLcjNDHA.2584@cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > > > > > > Hello Mike,
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > > Surely you could post the question into many group to
!> gain
!> > > > more
!> > > > > > > > > audience.
!> > > > > > > > > > :)
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > > However, posting multiple messages in this way is
!called
!> > > > > > > > multi-posting,
!> > > > > > > > > > > which is considered poor manners in the newsgroups and
!> > will
!> > > > get
!> > > > > > you
!> > > > > > > > > flamed
!> > > > > > > > > > > if some people notice. This is because an answer to
!one
!> > post
!> > > > is
!> > > > > > not
!> > > > > > > > > > > available in the other. If I answer your question in
!> one
!> > > > thread
!> > > > > > and
!> > > > > > > > it
!> > > > > > > > > > was
!> > > > > > > > > > > already answered in another thread, I've wasted my
!time.
!> > > The
!> > > > > > > > preferred
!> > > > > > > > > > > technique is called crossposting, which puts linked
!> copies
!> > > of
!> > > > > the
!> > > > > > > same
!> > > > > > > > > > post
!> > > > > > > > > > > in multiple newsgroups.. You can crosspost using
!> Outlook
!> > > > > Express
!> > > > > > or
!> > > > > > > > the
!> > > > > > > > > > > MSDN Web interface by explicitly typing the names of
!the
!> > > > groups
!> > > > > > > > > (separated
!> > > > > > > > > > > by semi-colons) in the Newsgroup box that appears when
!> you
!> > > > post.
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > > Example:
!> > > > > microsoft.public.vb.com;microsoft.public.vb.database.ado
!> > > > > > > > etc.
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > > In this way, if anybody reply you, the reply will be
!> seen
!> > in
!> > > > all
!> > > > > > the
!> > > > > > > > > > > groups. It is also very convenient for you to check
!all
!> > the
!> > > > > > > response.
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for your understanding. By the way, I
!> > > replied
!> > > > > you
!> > > > > > > in
!> > > > > > > > > > > another group. Hope it helps.
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,
!> > > > > > > > > > > yhhuang
!> > > > > > > > > > > VS.NET, Visual C++
!> > > > > > > > > > > Microsoft
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,
!and
!> > > > confers
!> > > > > > no
!> > > > > > > > > > rights.
!> > > > > > > > > > > Got .Net? http://www.got...
!> > > > > > > > > > > --------------------
!> > > > > > > > > > > !From: "Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com>
!> > > > > > > > > > > !References: <udCo#MbNDHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>
!> > > > > > > > > > > <ux1aiYbNDHA.1564@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Subject: Re: Web Services vs. Remoting
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:05:01 -0700
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Lines: 46
!> > > > > > > > > > > !X-Priority: 3
!> > > > > > > > > > > !X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
!> > > > > > > > > > > !X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express
!6.00.2800.1158
!> > > > > > > > > > > !X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE
!> V6.00.2800.1165
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Message-ID: <#$nNWydNDHA.2092@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Newsgroups:
!> > > > > microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.webservices
!> > > > > > > > > > > !NNTP-Posting-Host:
!> > > adsl-64-175-22-129.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
!> > > > > > > > > > 64.175.22.129
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Path:
!> > > > > > > cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.webservices:17873
!> > > > > > > > > > > !X-Tomcat-NG:
!> > > > > microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.webservices
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Marina,
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !I am reposting this so I can include others in the
!> > > > discussion.
!> > > > > I
!> > > > > > > > thank
!> > > > > > > > > > you
!> > > > > > > > > > > !for your comments, and I have gotten as much out of
!> them
!> > as
!> > > I
!> > > > > > can.
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Possibly you can let others post on this topic.
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Thanks.
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !Mike
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !"Marina" <zlatkinam@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in
!> message
!> > > > > > > > > > > !news:ux1aiYbNDHA.1564@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> I am not sure why you are reposting this again.
!> > > > > > > > > > > !>
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> There is no difference. Neither is better for COM+.
!> > One
!> > > > > might
!> > > > > > be
!> > > > > > > > > > better
!> > > > > > > > > > > !for
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> your application - but that really depends on how
!> many
!> > > > tiers
!> > > > > > your
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> application is structured and what it needs to do.
!> > > Whether
!> > > > it
!> > > > > > > > access
!> > > > > > > > > no
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> databases or 100, remoting vs. web services is a
!> > > completely
!> > > > > > > > separate
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> question.
!> > > > > > > > > > > !>
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> "Mike Malter" <mikemalter@nospam.com> wrote in
!> message
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> news:udCo%23MbNDHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > Given the choice, what do you prefer to do?
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> >
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > I am going to need to do a two phase commit
!(using
!> > > COM+),
!> > > > > and
!> > > > > > > am
!> > > > > > > > > > > !wondering
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > if web services or remoting is better to use.
!I'd
!> > > > > appreciate
!> > > > > > > it
!> > > > > > > > if
!> > > > > > > > > > you
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > would not mind sharing the highlights of any
!> > practical
!> > > > > > > > experience
!> > > > > > > > > > you
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> might
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > have with me.
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> >
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > Thanks.
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > --
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> >
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > Mike Malter
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> >
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > mikemalter@nospam.com
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> > (remove the you know what and replace it with
!> > > maltercorp)
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> >
!> > > > > > > > > > > !> >
!> > > > > > > > > > > !>
!> > > > > > > > > > > !>
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > > !
!> > > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > > >
!> > > > > > >
!> > > > > > >
!> > > > > >
!> > > > > >
!> > > > >
!> > > > >
!> > > >
!> > > >
!> > >
!> > >
!> >
!> >
!>
!>
!
!
!