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Houcranna

12/29/2013 2:24:00 PM

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3 Answers

Jonathan Wood

1/16/2008 4:33:00 PM

Thanks for your comments.

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softci...

"Kerry Moorman" <kmoorman@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:%23sD8K7DWIHA.3556@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Rick,
>
> A null value in a foreign key column is a completely proper database
> design. In fact the very definition of a foreign key is that it must point
> to a unique row in another table or be null.
>
> Actually, using a "not assigned" row is improper design.
>
> Kerry Moorman
>
> "Rick" <RickREMOVETHIS@LakeValleySeed.com> wrote in message
> news:%232w3xXDWIHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Just my opinion, but I would put an extra row in the Items table for "not
>> assigned" and use that for the foreign key in the User table.
>>
>> A nullable foreign key, if allowed, in your db does not seem like a
>> proper design. It is in effect saying "The User table as a dependency on
>> an Unknown row in the Items table".
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> "Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
>> news:e3DJ0j6VIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>I just wondered if anyone here has had experience with nullable foreign
>>>keys.
>>>
>>> I have a number of items and I want some of the items associated with a
>>> user while other items are not associated with any user. After thinking
>>> about this, it seems like the easiest approach is to put all items in
>>> the same table and give that table a foreign key to the user's table,
>>> but allow that foreign key to be NULL for when the item is not
>>> associated with a user.
>>>
>>> This seems pretty straight forward but there's a few things that bother
>>> me. Just thought I'd check if anyone sees any potential problems to this
>>> approach.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Wood
>>> SoftCircuits Programming
>>> http://www.softci...
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Radek Cerny

1/17/2008 6:08:00 AM

I think what he means is exactly what I do, in that a PK value of 0 (not
null) is the virtual null row, and so an FK that is virtually null has a
value of 0.

This is a policy I have used for over 10 years with great success. You will
never 'lose' data because of a missing outer join.

"Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
news:ux6$a1FWIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I'm confused by this reply. Putting an extra row means adding another
> record (did you mean column?). How can another record address this issue?
>
> --
> Jonathan Wood
> SoftCircuits Programming
> http://www.softci...
>
> "Rick" <RickREMOVETHIS@LakeValleySeed.com> wrote in message
> news:%232w3xXDWIHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Just my opinion, but I would put an extra row in the Items table for "not
>> assigned" and use that for the foreign key in the User table.
>>
>> A nullable foreign key, if allowed, in your db does not seem like a
>> proper design. It is in effect saying "The User table as a dependency on
>> an Unknown row in the Items table".
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> "Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
>> news:e3DJ0j6VIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>I just wondered if anyone here has had experience with nullable foreign
>>>keys.
>>>
>>> I have a number of items and I want some of the items associated with a
>>> user while other items are not associated with any user. After thinking
>>> about this, it seems like the easiest approach is to put all items in
>>> the same table and give that table a foreign key to the user's table,
>>> but allow that foreign key to be NULL for when the item is not
>>> associated with a user.
>>>
>>> This seems pretty straight forward but there's a few things that bother
>>> me. Just thought I'd check if anyone sees any potential problems to this
>>> approach.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Wood
>>> SoftCircuits Programming
>>> http://www.softci...
>>>
>>
>>
>

Jonathan Wood

1/17/2008 7:51:00 PM

If I follow, you are talking about, in effect, creating a "false" user that
is linked to items not associated with any users.

If that is correct, it makes good sense. I could even have the database then
enforce referential integrety. (Although I may have some issues to work out
in the practical sense.)

Thanks.

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softci...

"Radek Cerny" <rcerny@spam.exm.com.au> wrote in message
news:eY3dR9MWIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I think what he means is exactly what I do, in that a PK value of 0 (not
>null) is the virtual null row, and so an FK that is virtually null has a
>value of 0.
>
> This is a policy I have used for over 10 years with great success. You
> will never 'lose' data because of a missing outer join.
>
> "Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
> news:ux6$a1FWIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> I'm confused by this reply. Putting an extra row means adding another
>> record (did you mean column?). How can another record address this issue?
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Wood
>> SoftCircuits Programming
>> http://www.softci...
>>
>> "Rick" <RickREMOVETHIS@LakeValleySeed.com> wrote in message
>> news:%232w3xXDWIHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Just my opinion, but I would put an extra row in the Items table for
>>> "not assigned" and use that for the foreign key in the User table.
>>>
>>> A nullable foreign key, if allowed, in your db does not seem like a
>>> proper design. It is in effect saying "The User table as a dependency on
>>> an Unknown row in the Items table".
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> "Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e3DJ0j6VIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>I just wondered if anyone here has had experience with nullable foreign
>>>>keys.
>>>>
>>>> I have a number of items and I want some of the items associated with a
>>>> user while other items are not associated with any user. After thinking
>>>> about this, it seems like the easiest approach is to put all items in
>>>> the same table and give that table a foreign key to the user's table,
>>>> but allow that foreign key to be NULL for when the item is not
>>>> associated with a user.
>>>>
>>>> This seems pretty straight forward but there's a few things that bother
>>>> me. Just thought I'd check if anyone sees any potential problems to
>>>> this approach.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonathan Wood
>>>> SoftCircuits Programming
>>>> http://www.softci...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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Houcranna

Jonathan Wood

Radek Cerny

Jonathan Wood

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