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7 Answers

Jonathan Wood

11/28/2007 11:58:00 PM

0

Miha,

> LINQ is not database related in any way. ORM is. You are actually asking
> whether to use an ORM or not to use it.

As stated in my previous post, I don't even know what ORM is. And, after
your reply, I still do not. Nor am I clear on "LINQ to SQL." I really don't
know what you are talking about.

LINQ is a form of SQL syntax that is used directly in a programming
language. If you place SQL directly in your source code, then you are not
placing it in a stored procedure. I don't get why you seem to resist that.

>> Sheesh! Would it be possible for that guy to have any more typing errors?
>
> Shees, that guy...I'll tell him.

Sorry, didn't realize it was you. You really should proof read more though.

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softci...

Cor Ligthert [MVP]

11/29/2007 5:51:00 AM

0

Jonathan,

You have asked a question in a subject and then have put text in the message
that did not fit to each other. While in the message was:

>>To the extent that's true, it would seem better to avoid LINQ in favor of
stored procedures.

You did not get an answer on the first question in the subject, because it
is an impossible to answer question. Maybe can you ask in future to
somebody. "Who did use LINQ?".

You got your answers on the second question, therefore don't blaim Miha with
what he wrote, your question in the subject is simple impossible to be
answered.

It is as a pot who calls a kettle black.

Cor




"Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> schreef in bericht
news:ep1x8phMIHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Miha,
>
>> LINQ is not database related in any way. ORM is. You are actually asking
>> whether to use an ORM or not to use it.
>
> As stated in my previous post, I don't even know what ORM is. And, after
> your reply, I still do not. Nor am I clear on "LINQ to SQL." I really
> don't know what you are talking about.
>
> LINQ is a form of SQL syntax that is used directly in a programming
> language. If you place SQL directly in your source code, then you are not
> placing it in a stored procedure. I don't get why you seem to resist that.
>
>>> Sheesh! Would it be possible for that guy to have any more typing
>>> errors?
>>
>> Shees, that guy...I'll tell him.
>
> Sorry, didn't realize it was you. You really should proof read more
> though.
>
> --
> Jonathan Wood
> SoftCircuits Programming
> http://www.softci...
>

Jonathan Wood

11/29/2007 5:30:00 PM

0

Are you suffering from some sort of mental disorder or something?

Who's blaming Miha for anything? I requested comments, and he gave some. And
I'm just commenting back.

You have some sort of problem with that?

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softci...


"Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <notmyfirstname@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:3385356D-A60D-44F9-9CF1-8703D2A966C3@microsoft.com...
> Jonathan,
>
> You have asked a question in a subject and then have put text in the
> message that did not fit to each other. While in the message was:
>
>>>To the extent that's true, it would seem better to avoid LINQ in favor of
> stored procedures.
>
> You did not get an answer on the first question in the subject, because it
> is an impossible to answer question. Maybe can you ask in future to
> somebody. "Who did use LINQ?".
>
> You got your answers on the second question, therefore don't blaim Miha
> with what he wrote, your question in the subject is simple impossible to
> be answered.
>
> It is as a pot who calls a kettle black.
>
> Cor
>
>
>
>
> "Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> schreef in bericht
> news:ep1x8phMIHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Miha,
>>
>>> LINQ is not database related in any way. ORM is. You are actually asking
>>> whether to use an ORM or not to use it.
>>
>> As stated in my previous post, I don't even know what ORM is. And, after
>> your reply, I still do not. Nor am I clear on "LINQ to SQL." I really
>> don't know what you are talking about.
>>
>> LINQ is a form of SQL syntax that is used directly in a programming
>> language. If you place SQL directly in your source code, then you are not
>> placing it in a stored procedure. I don't get why you seem to resist
>> that.
>>
>>>> Sheesh! Would it be possible for that guy to have any more typing
>>>> errors?
>>>
>>> Shees, that guy...I'll tell him.
>>
>> Sorry, didn't realize it was you. You really should proof read more
>> though.
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Wood
>> SoftCircuits Programming
>> http://www.softci...
>>
>

Jonathan Wood

11/29/2007 5:39:00 PM

0

Miha,

> Perhaps you should read definition from wikipedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relation...

It would've been quite difficult for me to do that not knowing what ORM
stood for.

> In short, ORM is a technique that maps database entities to objects that
> exist in programming world. IOW you operate with objects while ORM takes
> care of database interaction for you.
> Some ORM products out there:
> LLBLGenPro
> NHibernate,
> WilsonORMapper
> LINQ to SQL,
> Entitiy Framework (next year probably)

And so what is the "ORM" product involved in the latest .NET languages?

I want to be clear: All I've seen was a short video showing the new LINQ
feature of VS2008 and C#. I thought I understood what it was. Perhaps I
didn't.

What it looked like was a way to duplicate SQL logic in the language proper.
It seemed logical to conclude that any SQL logic placed within C#, for
example, would therefore not be placed in a stored procedure, because a
stored procedure would not be in C#. I'm still not clear where the flaw in
that logic, if any, lies.

> While LINQ is a tecnique for querying everything that supports LINQ
> queries.
> LINQ by itself doesn't know what to do with databases. OTOH LINQ to SQL
> uses LINQ constructs to generate SQL queries.
> So when dealing with databases using LINQ you need an ORM product which
> knows how to transform LINQ queries into SQL queries.
> About the products listed above: some of them already support LINQ and
> some of them will soon support it (they have other way of expressing
> queries) - I think that no ORM will ignore LINQ.
> Hope this explanation clears the fog a bit.

I guess I figured that by specifically referring to the LINQ in the latest
version of .NET languages, I was being far more specific than the
description above.

>> LINQ is a form of SQL syntax that is used directly in a programming
>> language. If you place SQL directly in your source code, then you are not
>> placing it in a stored procedure. I don't get why you seem to resist
>> that.
>
> Definitely not. As explained above, LINQ is in no way connected to SQL.
> ORM (think LINQ to SQL) does the transformatino for you.
> Furthermore LINQ to SQL is capable of using stored procedures, so you can
> have both. And also, you could embed LINQ to SQL into managed stored
> procedures.

<shrug> I guess I'll need to do some more reading on LINQ in .NET.

Thanks.

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softci...

Jonathan Wood

11/29/2007 7:48:00 PM

0

I have absolutely no idea what the heck you are rambling on about. Anything
you interpreted as blaiming Miha is based on your misunderstanding (except
for maybe his typing errors on his site). Miha didn't seem to have a problem
with what I said. Although I didn't understand all that he said, I still the
discussion was useful, for me anyway.

So why don't you just go and mind your own business?

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softci...


"Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <notmyfirstname@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:6258A57D-62F9-4741-B38A-06F595E76D76@microsoft.com...
>
>
>> Are you suffering from some sort of mental disorder or something?
>>
>> Who's blaming Miha for anything? I requested comments, and he gave some.
>> And I'm just commenting back.
>>
>> You have some sort of problem with that?
>>
>
> In the way you did it, Yes.
>
> I am not the biggest friend with Miha, but the way you think that you are
> allowed to act is realy disguisting.
>
> People like you will make that people stop helping others.
>
> Cor

Jonathan Wood

11/29/2007 7:55:00 PM

0

Cowboy,

> Miha is not a native English speaker, so give him some slack on his
> English diction. :-)

Okay, well, I didn't initially realize it was his writing I criticized. And
he looked English from his picture. So my apologies to Miha.

> The downside Miha mentions in his blog post (n-tiers in specific) is
> partially a problem with the samples out there, as I believe one could
> design a decent enough n-tier structure around LINQ. I will agree,
> however, that the tools are far behind the technology. That is fairly
> typical of MS.

I must confess I had trouble understanding him, perhaps in part due to my
lack of knowledge on the subject. But you seem to be describing the exact
same problem I was trying to describe in my initial post. While I focused on
stored procedures, I guess n-tier is the issue I was trying to address.

Above, you seem to be referring to the fact that you could put LINQ code in
your data layer. But that still leaves stored procedures, which I'm
understanding can be more efficient and secure than SQL queries from code.
So I was looking at this as a problem with using LINQ. But, clearly, I need
a better understanding of the subject.

Thanks.

--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softci...

Miha Markic

11/29/2007 8:09:00 PM

0


"Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
news:u5GoDHsMIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Cowboy,
>
>> Miha is not a native English speaker, so give him some slack on his
>> English diction. :-)
>
> Okay, well, I didn't initially realize it was his writing I criticized.
> And he looked English from his picture.

LOL. Now I'll try to figure out whether this is a compliment or not :-)

> So my apologies to Miha.

Hey, no problem, I know my english is not perfect - feedback appreciated.

--
Miha Markic [MVP C#, INETA Country Leader for Slovenia]
RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_...