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comp.lang.javascript

Comparison between Flash and

bit-naughty

4/25/2016 7:07:00 PM

How well do they stack up against each other? I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the <canvas> tag, but I've seen Flash sites, which, for example, had a "mini OS" _within the page_ - ie. boxes you could drag around the screen, maybe a "calculator" app within the thing, i.e. you click on a calculator icon, and it pops it up _inside the page_, AFAIR, undistinguishable from a normal desktop calculator....

Moreover, why does everyone want Flash to die? I personally think there will *always* be room for something that lets people create multimedia _without touching raw code_ ,ie. you create animation by *drawing*, inside a *creator program*, like you do in Flash. This is just more *human*, and will always fulfill a need....



What do you guys think?

(Btw, I know next to nothing about coding IN Flash :) )
8 Answers

Andrew Poulos

4/25/2016 10:53:00 PM

0

On 26/04/2016 5:07 AM, bit-naughty@hotmail.com wrote:
> How well do they stack up against each other? I have only a
> rudimentary knowledge of the <canvas> tag, but I've seen Flash sites,
> which, for example, had a "mini OS" _within the page_ - ie. boxes you
> could drag around the screen, maybe a "calculator" app within the
> thing, i.e. you click on a calculator icon, and it pops it up _inside
> the page_, AFAIR, undistinguishable from a normal desktop
> calculator....
>
> Moreover, why does everyone want Flash to die? I personally think
> there will *always* be room for something that lets people create
> multimedia _without touching raw code_ ,ie. you create animation by
> *drawing*, inside a *creator program*, like you do in Flash. This is
> just more *human*, and will always fulfill a need....
>
>
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> (Btw, I know next to nothing about coding IN Flash :) )

My gosh, your questions read just like the homework assignment.

Andrew Poulos

Michael Haufe (\"TNO\")

4/26/2016 2:44:00 AM

0

On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 2:07:21 PM UTC-5, bit-n...@hotmail.com wrote:
> How well do they stack up against each other? I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the <canvas> tag, but I've seen Flash sites, which, for example, had a "mini OS" _within the page_ - ie. boxes you could drag around the screen, maybe a "calculator" app within the thing, i.e. you click on a calculator icon, and it pops it up _inside the page_, AFAIR, undistinguishable from a normal desktop calculator....

You can't compare Flash development and Canvas. You have to compare Flash development with Web development in general. Flash is irrelevant now as all of its functionality can be created or emulated in a standards compliant way in modern browsers.

Here is a cutesy example:

<http://www.windows9...

and here is a more serious example:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTJRw...


> Moreover, why does everyone want Flash to die? I personally think there will *always* be room for something that lets people create multimedia _without touching raw code_ ,ie. you create animation by *drawing*, inside a *creator program*, like you do in Flash. This is just more *human*, and will always fulfill a need....

Flash is subsumed by the web. If you want it so bad, there are ways to still get it either though the now abandoned Shumway:

<https://mozilla.github.io/sh...

or through a different compilation step such as one of those listed on the following page:

<https://github.com/jashkenas/coffeescript/wiki/List-of-languages-that-compile...

Teodor V.

4/26/2016 3:43:00 AM

0

On 2016-04-26 04:44, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 2:07:21 PM UTC-5, bit-n...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> How well do they stack up against each other? I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the <canvas> tag, but I've seen Flash sites, which, for example, had a "mini OS" _within the page_ - ie. boxes you could drag around the screen, maybe a "calculator" app within the thing, i.e. you click on a calculator icon, and it pops it up _inside the page_, AFAIR, undistinguishable from a normal desktop calculator....
>
> You can't compare Flash development and Canvas. You have to compare Flash development with Web development in general. Flash is irrelevant now as all of its functionality can be created or emulated in a standards compliant way in modern browsers.
>
> Here is a cutesy example:
>
> <http://www.windows9...
>
> and here is a more serious example:
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTJRw...
>
>
>> Moreover, why does everyone want Flash to die? I personally think there will *always* be room for something that lets people create multimedia _without touching raw code_ ,ie. you create animation by *drawing*, inside a *creator program*, like you do in Flash. This is just more *human*, and will always fulfill a need....
>
> Flash is subsumed by the web. If you want it so bad, there are ways to still get it either though the now abandoned Shumway:
>
> <https://mozilla.github.io/sh...
>
> or through a different compilation step such as one of those listed on the following page:
>
> <https://github.com/jashkenas/coffeescript/wiki/List-of-languages-that-compile...

I could understand it when Flash was still noticeably slower than
javascript, but not anymore, as you can do things faster in javascript
than in Flash these days.

I suspect it's either people who write Flash apps who either lack proper
motivation to learn javascript or want to obfuscate what their code does.

Just my $.02.

/Teo.


--
Teodor Väänänen | Don't meddle in the affairs of wizards,
teostupiditydor@algonet.se | for you are good and crunchy with
Remove stupidity to reply | ketchup.

Teodor V.

4/26/2016 3:44:00 AM

0

On 2016-04-26 05:42, Teodor V. wrote:
> On 2016-04-26 04:44, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 2:07:21 PM UTC-5, bit-n...@hotmail.com wrote:

.... SNIKT ...

> I could understand it when Flash was still noticeably slower than
> javascript, but not anymore, as you can do things faster in javascript
> than in Flash these days.

when flash was still noticeably /faster/ than javascript.
Nothing else.

*facepalms*

> I suspect it's either people who write Flash apps who either lack proper
> motivation to learn javascript or want to obfuscate what their code does.
>
> Just my $.02.
>
> /Teo.
>
>


--
Teodor Väänänen | Don't meddle in the affairs of wizards,
teostupiditydor@algonet.se | for you are good and crunchy with
Remove stupidity to reply | ketchup.

Aleksandro

4/27/2016 2:27:00 AM

0

On 26/04/16 00:42, Teodor V. wrote:
> On 2016-04-26 04:44, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>> On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 2:07:21 PM UTC-5, bit-n...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> How well do they stack up against each other? I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the <canvas> tag, but I've seen Flash sites, which, for example, had a "mini OS" _within the page_ - ie. boxes you could drag around the screen, maybe a "calculator" app within the thing, i.e. you click on a calculator icon, and it pops it up _inside the page_, AFAIR, undistinguishable from a normal desktop calculator....
>>
>> You can't compare Flash development and Canvas. You have to compare Flash development with Web development in general. Flash is irrelevant now as all of its functionality can be created or emulated in a standards compliant way in modern browsers.
>>
>> Here is a cutesy example:
>>
>> <http://www.windows9...
>>
>> and here is a more serious example:
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTJRw...
>>
>>
>>> Moreover, why does everyone want Flash to die? I personally think there will *always* be room for something that lets people create multimedia _without touching raw code_ ,ie. you create animation by *drawing*, inside a *creator program*, like you do in Flash. This is just more *human*, and will always fulfill a need....
>>
>> Flash is subsumed by the web. If you want it so bad, there are ways to still get it either though the now abandoned Shumway:
>>
>> <https://mozilla.github.io/sh...
>>
>> or through a different compilation step such as one of those listed on the following page:
>>
>> <https://github.com/jashkenas/coffeescript/wiki/List-of-languages-that-compile...
>
> I could understand it when Flash was still noticeably faster than
> javascript, but not anymore, as you can do things faster in javascript
> than in Flash these days.

More than speed I'd say it was due to a lack of features and lack of
standardization on important ones.

> I suspect it's either people who write Flash apps who either lack proper
> motivation to learn javascript or want to obfuscate what their code does.

I don't think obfuscating is an issue with Javascript.

> Just my $.02.
>
> /Teo.

bit-naughty

4/27/2016 6:07:00 PM

0

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 8:14:29 AM UTC+5:30, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:

> Here is a cutesy example:
>
> <http://www.windows9...


That was UNBELIEVABLE!!! Blew me away totally!


>
> and here is a more serious example:
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTJRw...
>


And that was BEYOND UNBELIEVABLE!! It was MIND-BLOWING!! :) That guy looks like he's made Flash, the *authoring tool*, In The Browser!! My God!!
I noticed that that video was from 2012 - is there a commercial product around this by now?

Any idea if it does anything 3D graphic-y?

bit-naughty

4/27/2016 6:10:00 PM

0

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 4:23:22 AM UTC+5:30, Andrew Poulos wrote:

>
> My gosh, your questions read just like the homework assignment.
>
> Andrew Poulos


NONE of this is homework, trust me.....

Michael Haufe (\"TNO\")

4/28/2016 12:34:00 AM

0

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 1:07:12 PM UTC-5, bit-n...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 8:14:29 AM UTC+5:30, Michael Haufe (TNO) wrote:
>
> > Here is a cutesy example:
> >
> > <http://www.windows9...
>
>
> That was UNBELIEVABLE!!! Blew me away totally!

Here is the one I was looking for originally before I gave the above link. This is the real Windows 95 operating system being emulated in the browser:

<https://win95....

hopefully the server doesn't fall over as people try to view it.

> >
> > and here is a more serious example:
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTJRw...
> >
>
> And that was BEYOND UNBELIEVABLE!! It was MIND-BLOWING!! :) That guy looks like he's made Flash, the *authoring tool*, In The Browser!! My God!!
> I noticed that that video was from 2012 - is there a commercial product around this by now?
>
> Any idea if it does anything 3D graphic-y?

What was created was a shadow of the SmallTalk/Squeak platform. Dan Ingalls is one of the giants of the field:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_I...

IRT 3D: I didn't look but wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the available packages. 3D is not difficult to implement with some basic training on the subject; especially today with modern browsers.

For example. Here is an off-the-cuff 3D cube I made some time ago:

<https://thenewobjective.com/demos/css...