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comp.lang.c++

on goto

on goto

io_x

4/24/2010 10:13:00 AM

[Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]

the people that speak not good about "goto"
are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc

more distant is your code from goto
more your code is bug full and incompresible

the "goto" is the key word for programming;
all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
and the easy cpu layout
is the wrong way for programming

i advise all you
Good Morning




Alexei A. Frounze

4/24/2010 10:35:00 AM

On Apr 24, 3:13 am, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>
> the people that speak not good about "goto"
> are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc
>
> more distant is your code from goto
> more your code is bug full and incompresible
>
> the "goto" is the key word for programming;
> all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
> and the easy cpu layout
> is the wrong way for programming
>
> i advise all you
> Good Morning

Everything may be used, misused and abused, goto included. There are
good and bad usage patterns and goto is not an exception here. I can
list a number of other things that may be just as bad as a poorly used
goto (or as good as a good goto). See?

Alex

Mensanator

4/24/2010 12:07:00 PM

On Apr 24, 5:13 am, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>
> the people that speak not good about "goto"
> are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc
>
> more distant is your code from goto
> more your code is bug full and incompresible
>
> the "goto" is the key word for programming;
> all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
> and the easy cpu layout
> is the wrong way for programming
>
> i advise all you
> Good Morning

Yeah, there's nothing more fun than converting BASIC to Pascal.

Only to discover that goto was used to return from a sub-routine
without clearing the stack.

4/24/2010 12:16:00 PM

"Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> writes:

> On Apr 24, 3:13 am, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
>> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
>> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>>
>> the people that speak not good about "goto"
>> are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc
>>
>> more distant is your code from goto
>> more your code is bug full and incompresible
>>
>> the "goto" is the key word for programming;
>> all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
>> and the easy cpu layout
>> is the wrong way for programming
>>
>> i advise all you
>> Good Morning
>
> Everything may be used, misused and abused, goto included. There are
> good and bad usage patterns and goto is not an exception here. I can
> list a number of other things that may be just as bad as a poorly used
> goto (or as good as a good goto). See?

Indeed. For example, the Duff device is worse than most gotos I've
ever seen.

--
__Pascal Bourguignon__

Rui Maciel

4/24/2010 12:20:00 PM

io_x wrote:

> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>
> the people that speak not good about "goto"
> are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc
>
> more distant is your code from goto
> more your code is bug full and incompresible
>
> the "goto" is the key word for programming;
> all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
> and the easy cpu layout
> is the wrong way for programming
>
> i advise all you
> Good Morning

I see there is a small misconception in this issue. The only nasty thing that is usually
said about goto is that it's use may end up generating code which isn't easy to read, to
interpret and to follow.

Adding to that, high level languages implement multiple flavors of conditionals and loops,
which end up performing the exact same tasks goto is used for but in a way which is
"cleaner", easier to read, to interpret and to follow.

Yet, loop/conditionals aren't and be all, end all solution. Some tasks, such as state
machines, can still be better implemented with the plain old goto, sometimes in a "cleaner"
way than with any mix of loop/conditionals which are available in any high level language.

So, in essence, goto isn't the problem nor is it a problem. It's just a way of performing
certain tasks. Sometimes it isn't the best tool and sometimes it isn't the worst tool.
Nonetheless, that doesn't make it bad.

On the other hand, popular misconceptions which are often cited but aren't based on any
objective reasoning can constitute a problem, and this appears to be one of those cases.



Rui Maciel

Daniel T.

4/24/2010 2:11:00 PM

"io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> wrote:

> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>
> the people that speak not good about "goto" are uttled wrong; their
> code bug full etc
>
> more distant is your code from goto more your code is bug full and
> incompresible
>
> the "goto" is the key word for programming; all the remain, other than
> goto or jmp or jc or jz, and the easy cpu layout is the wrong way for
> programming
>
> i advise all you
> Good Morning

This is probably a troll, but it is a good opportunity to suggest to
everyone who is tempted to argue about this issue to start from
Dijkstra's paper rather than simply asserting that "goto is good"
without understanding the issues involved.

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_C...
Harmful.html

Bartc

4/24/2010 2:39:00 PM


"Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:daniel_t-623394.10103424042010@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...
> "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> wrote:

>> the "goto" is the key word for programming; all the remain, other than
>> goto or jmp or jc or jz, and the easy cpu layout is the wrong way for
>> programming
>>
>> i advise all you
>> Good Morning
>
> This is probably a troll,

If this actually is io_x, then he really believes this stuff.

> but it is a good opportunity to suggest to
> everyone who is tempted to argue about this issue to start from
> Dijkstra's paper rather than simply asserting that "goto is good"
> without understanding the issues involved.
>
> http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_C...
> Harmful.html

And then read Knuth's "Structured Programming with go to Statements" (a bad
scan is here:
http://pplab.snu.ac.kr/courses/adv_pl05/papers/p261...)

"... programmers and language designers still feel the need for some
euphemism that 'goes to' without saying 'go to' ..."

--
Bartc

Richard

4/24/2010 3:18:00 PM


"bartc" <bartc@freeuk.com> writes:

> "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:daniel_t-623394.10103424042010@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...
>> "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> the "goto" is the key word for programming; all the remain, other than
>>> goto or jmp or jc or jz, and the easy cpu layout is the wrong way for
>>> programming
>>>
>>> i advise all you
>>> Good Morning
>>
>> This is probably a troll,
>
> If this actually is io_x, then he really believes this stuff.
>
>> but it is a good opportunity to suggest to
>> everyone who is tempted to argue about this issue to start from
>> Dijkstra's paper rather than simply asserting that "goto is good"
>> without understanding the issues involved.
>>
>> http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_C...
>> Harmful.html
>
> And then read Knuth's "Structured Programming with go to Statements" (a bad
> scan is here:
> http://pplab.snu.ac.kr/courses/adv_pl05/papers/p261...)
>
> "... programmers and language designers still feel the need for some
> euphemism that 'goes to' without saying 'go to' ..."

Recommending Knuth is like telling someone they need to qualify as a
NASA rocket scientist in order to fly a kite.


--
"Avoid hyperbole at all costs, its the most destructive argument on
the planet" - Mark McIntyre in comp.lang.c

io_x

4/24/2010 5:48:00 PM


"Mensanator" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:5fd893eb-9dda-4c70-bf56-614b0f721874@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 24, 5:13 am, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
>> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
>> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>>
>> the people that speak not good about "goto"
>> are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc
>>
>> more distant is your code from goto
>> more your code is bug full and incompresible
>>
>> the "goto" is the key word for programming;
>> all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
>> and the easy cpu layout
>> is the wrong way for programming
>>
>> i advise all you
>> Good Morning

>Yeah, there's nothing more fun than converting BASIC to Pascal.
>
>Only to discover that goto was used to return from a sub-routine
>without clearing the stack.


all programming is all about choose the right gotos
and how to write them in the page.
point, end of programming difficulies,
there is nothing to say





io_x

4/24/2010 5:49:00 PM


"Alexei A. Frounze" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:9aedd878-0ccc-4f4a-b522-7e80b96f5fc5@m25g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 24, 3:13 am, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
>> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
>> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>>
>> the people that speak not good about "goto"
>> are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc
>>
>> more distant is your code from goto
>> more your code is bug full and incompresible
>>
>> the "goto" is the key word for programming;
>> all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
>> and the easy cpu layout
>> is the wrong way for programming
>>
>> i advise all you
>> Good Morning

>Everything may be used, misused and abused, goto included. There are
>good and bad usage patterns and goto is not an exception here. I can
>list a number of other things that may be just as bad as a poorly used
>goto (or as good as a good goto). See?

what does it mean "patterns"?
all programming is all about choose the right gotos

>Alex



Alexei A. Frounze

4/24/2010 7:01:00 PM

On Apr 24, 10:48 am, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
> "Alexei A. Frounze" ha scritto nel messaggionews:9aedd878-0ccc-4f4a-b522-7e80b96f5fc5@m25g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >On Apr 24, 3:13 am, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
> >> [Xpost to: alt.comp.programming, alt.lang.asm,
> >> comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.programming]
>
> >> the people that speak not good about "goto"
> >> are uttled wrong; their code bug full etc
>
> >> more distant is your code from goto
> >> more your code is bug full and incompresible
>
> >> the "goto" is the key word for programming;
> >> all the remain, other than goto or jmp or jc or jz,
> >> and the easy cpu layout
> >> is the wrong way for programming
>
> >> i advise all you
> >> Good Morning
> >Everything may be used, misused and abused, goto included. There are
> >good and bad usage patterns and goto is not an exception here. I can
> >list a number of other things that may be just as bad as a poorly used
> >goto (or as good as a good goto). See?
>
> what does it mean "patterns"?

Not sure what you mean here.

> all programming is all about choose the right gotos

If your programs consisted only of gotos (as I infer from the above),
they would be useless. Programming is not all about choosing the right
gotos. Less so all programming. It's about many more things.

Alex

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